Home » Episodes » Episode 32 – Mongolia & Seneca Falls, NY (A Little Bit Genocide-y)

On Episode 32, Emily talks about another one of history’s most ruthless rulers, Genghis Khan. Then, Rachel digs into the origin of ‘bloomers’ – a piece of clothing that almost derailed the women’s suffrage movement – and their creator Amelia Bloomer. Hopefully, you’re horrified. 

Content/Trigger Warnings: sexual assault, violence  


Rachel 0:12
Hi, welcome to horrible history. I’m Rachel Everett Lozon.

Emily 0:16
And I’m Emily Barlean and Happy Father’s Day you’re not a father.

Rachel 0:20
I have one!

Emily 0:22
Happy Father’s Day to all of our listeners that are fathers, thank you very much for all you do.

Rachel 0:29
You’re gonna be like thank you for your service, taking care of the school again.

Emily 0:33
Thank you for your service. I do have another Thank you though. I wanted to say thank you to our newest patron, Ronnie. Thank you, Ronnie so much for joining us. We hope you enjoy all the extra content. You know that you came just to hear the story about me shitting my pants. But

Rachel 0:52
yeah, he’s a patron. So obviously that’s why he’s here and Ronnie, we salute you. We respect it salute you. And

Emily 0:58
also a salute to anyone who’s a new listener. Thanks to Rachel’s recent Tick Tock fame. So if you found us from Tick tock, keep following tell your friends.

Rachel 1:11
I don’t understand Tick tock, because you and I both have videos that like they get some love. You know, like we get a couple 100 likes, like 1400 1500 views, people are seeing it. And then I have that one on the wall. It’s a three part on the Romanovs that has fuckin like over 70,000 views and you’re like 12,000 likes, and I’m like, What is this?

Emily 1:33
I’m just like, waiting for it to hit 100,000 I feel like we need to do something special.

Rachel 1:38
I thank you tick tock for loving history. And I’ve actually learned some interesting stuff because people say we, for the record, we don’t mind being corrected, but don’t be a dick. Right, right. Like one person corrected us. And then as I was like, okay, and somebody else clarified about the pronunciation of Zarya set instead of Zarina. And the one who clarified said, you know, in Russia, we say Sarita so if you’re talking about Russia, and you want to really connect with the Russian listeners, then say sorry, TSA. And I said, Oh, perfect. Didn’t know. Thank you for that. Yeah. That kind of correction is

Emily 2:16
it’s nice when it’s like information sharing, instead of just being like, you’re saying it wrong. You’re like, I was like, No, I googled. I know,

Rachel 2:27
well, I’m like, like I said, I don’t mind. But if you’re just trying to be a dick on the internet, I really, I’ll either delete your comment, if it’s needlessly mean, or I don’t care, we’re ignoring. I’m not a canceled cart, culture person, but like, I just I give zero fucks if you’re just coming to be mean, and you aren’t actually listening to what we have to say,

Emily 2:44
Thank you for coming to our TED talk about bullying on the internet. That’s it. We don’t care for it.

Rachel 2:49
So I know you’re doing dangus con this week, and I’m gonna let you go first, because my story is kind of fun. Hey, what’s your father? Tell us? dangus? Yeah. Oh,

Emily 3:00
that is such a good. You won’t find out until the end of this story. But remember this when when you hear what I said? And you asked me, was he a father? Just remember this? Oh, there’s some good info

Rachel 3:14
that that little sound clip and it’s going to be my turn. Oh, ah, all right, Lord, let’s do the damn, you are correct.

Emily 3:24
You are correct. I am going to tell you the story of Ganga con. Last week, as our listeners hopefully Remember, I told the story of Attila the Hun, who was the Barbarian leader of the hunnic Empire back in 434. Ad. And so because I had heard a lot of information about like how terrible Taylor was, and how similarly terrible Angus Kahn was, I decided to do kangaskhan so that we could compare and contrast. So yeah, that means I am going to Mongolia today. And Mongolia is a country that is bordered by China and Russia. And so it’s really known for vast rugged expanses, and nomadic culture. But it’s capital Ulaanbaatar is where we’re gonna go today for our quote, unquote, travel, because it really is the center. It’s the capital. And it all centers around kangaskhan Square. Hello. Oh, so you know, it’s on point on brand for this trip. So if we’re going to spend a few days in Ulaanbaatar I would say that on day one, we would probably right off the bat want to go to the Mongolian National Museum, aka the History Museum.

Rachel 4:50

Emily 4:51
we have to do it. We have a history podcast. And it’s like number one on all the lists.

Rachel 4:57
So it must be good to do it because TripAdvisor told us

Emily 5:01
If I don’t know what to do I just go straight to TripAdvisor and or Yelp. Okay, totally. So then we could go to scicon bataar square, which is the capital square, as I mentioned, also sometimes known as gank is Khan square, there’s a big colonized monument dedicated to Ganga s Khan. But actually the square has like gone back and forth in naming recently, it was named for a while for Dom din sukhbaatar, who was a revolutionary hero. And they have a big equestrian statue of him in the square as well. So it’s really just like, it reminds me a lot of tenement square, which we all know about, like, we’ve heard about Tiananmen Square. But so I was I went to Beijing a few years ago. And it wasn’t what I was expected. It’s just like a concrete paradise, you know, like a huge square of concrete, and there’s like big capital buildings all around it. And there’s just like a place where people walk around and for me in China, you know, took a bunch of pictures and stuff. Sure. There are also a lot of cool monasteries in Ulaanbaatar. So I would say we could go to the chojun Lama monastery, which is a Buddhist monastery complex that has six temples. And it really, it really reminded me again, of what it looks like in China. I mean, they’re bordering countries, they’re very similar and like their backgrounds and everything. And so when I saw the imagery of it, it just like gave me the style Jeff for being in China because they’re those like very ornate Asian temples, they have like, gold statues of lions out front, but more like the lions that are like, Asian looking, not the like, you know, stupid lion statues like we have. And just like when I was in Beijing, it’s this old traditional 1000s of year old temple complex, but it’s like very much in the middle of a city. So it’s like, super old, traditional temple skyscraper. It’s just like, kind of crazy and fun to see like the juxtaposition of it. We could also do a day trip to the Terrell’s National Park, which is one of the largest protected areas in Mongolia and super popular for tourists. So they have these granite stone mountains and forests covered slopes, and like these beautiful wildflower Meadows with that have these big shaped rock formations. So really good scenery for people to check out. And then they’ve got these rivers and streams and it just seems picturesque. So yeah, I would definitely want to go there. And we of course have to go see the Ganga is Khan statue, which is like this giant silver statue of him like it is it’s bright, it’s it’s not metallic is not subtle. It’s very metallic. And then so many sites like TripAdvisor and stuff suggested that one of the nights we stay overnight in a yurt so I guess we have

Rachel 8:17
seen the really bougie you’re Yeah, travel sounds fun. It does. But I’m not trying to go camping. No, I hate camping. I don’t want to sleep on the floor. I don’t I love camping in a cabin with electric mattress. I want to do I I would do it in a camper. You know,

Emily 8:38
I mean, down with an RV.

Rachel 8:40
I just Yes. Yes. Like I don’t need to watch TV or do anything like that. I want to be out in nature. I want to sleep well. That’s what it is.

Emily 8:50
I’m old. Pop me into the middle of the forest. Tell me that I have to cook my food over fire. Sure. Do it all on hikes every day. That all sounds lovely. I want to sleep on a queen sized fucking memory foam mattress. Okay, like I want a Sleep Number bed. Anyways, okay, so there’s a ton of different sites to see. It’s obviously an entire country we’re talking about so it’s hard to narrow down even when the hell we would do there’s tons of monasteries, like I mentioned temples to see. It just seems like it’d be a really cool trip. Yeah, I would definitely go to Mongolia. Yeah. Okay, enough of that. Let’s talk Angus Kahn. So Angus was long after Attila. He was born in the 12th century. There’s not an exact date known when he was born. But he was born to the Mongolian royal family. So again, born into wealth, and he came into the world, according to legend, holding a blood clot in his hand. Oh, Which the family saw is like a promising sign like he’s going to have a exciting future. Or like he’ll be a brave soldier someday

Rachel 10:10
or a fucking vampire. Really?

Emily 10:12
Sort of creepy vampire, Harry. Richard chase ish. I don’t like it. Yeah, yucky, yucky, yucky.

Rachel 10:19

Emily 10:19
so they named the baby Tim collusion, though the world would of course come to know him by the name of Genghis Khan. So, like Attila the Hun. To me, the name Ganga is Khan kind of has that like Mufasa who say it again. But like, everyone hears it is like, oh, like, Huh, big bad? Boy. That’s weird. Bad Boy. Bad Boy,

Rachel 10:45
what you got to do?

Emily 10:48
Yes. So as I mentioned, his name was actually Tim lusion. Ganga is Khan is a title, not a name. And it means universal ruler. So throughout the story, I’m just going to refer to him as gangan. Because honestly, it’s easier to say, and it’s what people know. But you should know that he doesn’t actually become Ganga Khan until, like his 40s, essentially. So I will flag for you all, when the like, transition happens. Okay. The name Kangas Khan carries with it a very bloody story, as I just mentioned, born with a blood clot in his fucking hand. And so starts bloody ends bloody. He did a ton of murdering, like, we’re going to talk about it, lots and lots of lots of people died. But he also created an empire that came to span dozens of today’s countries. He united all the people he conquered under a single authority. he pioneered modern concepts like the census, the postal system, and religious freedom. And so there’s all this debate of like, was he a terrible, horrible human, or, like a revolutionary and like, the greatest leader we’ve ever seen. And so it’s something that is still up for debate. I think a lot of people from the outside definitely see him as like barbaric, or have a ruler. But they, I mean, have statues of him in Mongolia, they look up to him as like, a legend or, you know, like someone to be commemorated. So something else we can both at the end of this talk about who was worse, or Ganga

Rachel 12:36
and who would win in a fight, who would win in a fight, and

Emily 12:39
were they good or were they bad? Okay, starting back from one guy, Angus was born. Again, not sure on the real date, likely around 1160 ish ad. And when he was born, Mongolia was actually ruled by a bunch of different clans and tribal groups. So it was very split up. It was not a cohesive country. Now his father, whose name was Yes, Su Chi, was the leader of about 40,000 families. And that was one of the clan, one of the many clans of Mongolia. This clan was called the board judgin. Board, Jagan Jason G’s, lots of them, okay. Now, everybody in the clan really respected gesu Kai, even anyone older than him, which sometimes was like an issue for tribal leaders is like, you know, the elders are like you’re not my leader or whatever. Everyone respected him. In fact, he was also somewhat of a good like, conqueror. Case in point, Ganga, his mother, whose name was holan had been captured by the clan, and by the clan, as she and her first husband were riding home from their wedding. Oh, so she just got married, and yes to guys like, nope, you’re coming with me, dude and took her, dibs on her. And he took her and he already had a wife. So she was his second wife. So he took her on as a second wife. And then of course, Angus was born. And Ganga was actually his second son by just a few months. So his first wife had a son. And then like months later, Helen had dangus. And so they grew up very close together. And interestingly enough, kind of a kick in the pants for hold lun. They actually named this baby 10 mission, because it means like triumph over an enemy. And it was like a celebration of the fact that his father had triumphed over this enemy and stolen this woman from one of his enemies. So it’s like you’re going to be my wife which AKM Probably raping you because I kidnapped you, you did not love me, you’re going to birth my child. And every time you say his name, it’s going to remind you that I took you

Rachel 15:10
from your husband to deck move.

Emily 15:13
This is as fuck, yeah. So beyond that, we don’t really know what happened from the ages of like, one to nine. But, you know, relatively reasonable to suppose that he was brought up the way most children were brought up in this nomadic life. Kind of hard, harsh, you know, tribal lords and chiefs kind of fought and drank and tooled and married and slept with their weapons underneath them. And it was not like British royalty, you know, very nomadic and barbaric and that kind of thing. So at the ripe old age of nine, Ganga says father took him to a neighboring tribe to work for a few years to earn up bride.

Rachel 15:58
I was just gonna say, Did he take him to a sex worker to say, be young man? I said, You didn’t tell I cannot get that song.

Emily 16:09
No, it’s bad. So his intended wife that he was going to go earn was a slightly older girl named boar Tay. And she was the 10 year old daughter of dye. So Chen, who was the leader of the young Rat Tribe, now, on the way home from dropping Angus off with the younger tribe, yes, Su Chi was poisoned by his rivals and died. Oh, so Ganga says like, Fuck, I have to return home to like, be a man and just said, and so he was returning home to his mother, but the clan that had all respected yes to guys so much expelled his two widows and seven children and left them to die. They were just like by someone else. Oh, yes. So

Rachel 17:01
it’s a very male centric culture. We don’t care about the women. We don’t care about the children. If your guy is dead, Fuck you. Fuck off,

Emily 17:12
go survive by eating roots and rodents and fish and taking nature because you’re all just out backing nature dead to us. You can’t sit with us. Exactly. So Ganga is and his full brother kasar. So this was another son of Yes, Su Chi and Whoa, lon kind of grew to resent their eldest half brother whose name was back to her. And so keeping in mind that Ganga says nine at this time, they killed him. paso Kangas had his first kill when he was been nine years old.

Rachel 17:49
Do we know how he killed him?

Emily 17:51
I was listening to another podcast. And I feel like they said that he shot him with an arrow, okay, that they were like fishing. And something happened to like, irritate him. And so he just like fucking whipped out his arrow and shot his brother. Like, I don’t care for you. And so as punishment for this, he was seized and enslaved at nine years old. So yes, he’s a killer at nine years old. But yes, also he was betrayed the to a woman and enslaved all of them before he was two digits,

Rachel 18:27
an age insane. Crazy.

Emily 18:31
So they believe that his captivity probably lasted for more than five years. But then after he was released, he kind of felt ready to go back to die. So Chen and take Forte’s hand in marriage. He’s like I’m behind. I’m already 16 Oh, I’m an old maid.

Rachel 18:50
My balls have dropped. What am I going to do?

Emily 18:54
My voice is so low, she’s not going to go for it. Now, crazily enough, she was actually still waiting for him.

Rachel 19:02
I’m surprised she didn’t get married to somebody else.

Emily 19:05
I know. I know. And so they got married. And the couple actually used her dowry, which was a fine fur coat to make an alliance with own con of the powerful cariad clan. And on a super precious note on Khan, the leader of the Kalia of the clan excepted Ganga says a foster son like he was like coming here, but like I’ll take you in that sweet, so cute. So this alliance was super important to Angus because his mom’s old tribe, which was the Merc had clan decided to avenge her kidnapping, which had happened like hugging 17 years prior, but they were just like, hold on, you kidnapped hold on and so we’re gonna steal your wife forte. So they fuck And kidnapped his wife and gang this was like hell fucking No. and worked with his new foster dad and his foster Dad’s Army to raid the Merc kids, which to me sounds like they were murder kid or murder people children. Yeah, like market mermaids. Yeah, no, I’ve

Rachel 20:17
got kids.

Emily 20:19
But it was just a clan and Mongolia. No mermaids here yet.

Rachel 20:23
No tails. No fat tails. Okay.

Emily 20:26
No fins. Yes. So they looted the camp and took back what was rightfully his forte. So their first son giochi was born nine months later. So apparently they celebrated hard. Mm hmm. Pun intended made me feel like,

yeah, especially because they were like 16 Oh, okay. So before we kind of move on now that he’s quote unquote, an adult 16. Let’s kind of talk about what he looked like. Because even though he was such an influential figure, there’s not much known about what he looked like, he refused to allow anyone to draw pictures of him or make sculptures of him. He just was like, no. And so there’s really no contemporary portraits or sculptures. And so anything that was created of him was drawn or sculpted, or whatever, after he died. So what information historians have is super unreliable because they’re actually a lot of different accounts of what he looked like. So some people say he was this like tall, strong, man with a flowing mane of hair and a long bushy beard, which is like kind of how I picture it, I think, maybe. But there was a 14th century Persian chronicler, who claimed that Ganga is had red hair and green eyes, which is super questionable because Mongo those features are like not heard of and like that ethnicity. Kind of like what you had bro. So and

Rachel 22:20
I do I do picture him as like, strong and the role and the long flowing dark hair. I guess. I’m questioning that because if he didn’t want anybody to draw him or take his picture, whatever, did he have a horrific birthmark? Was there something he was self conscious about? That he didn’t want? remembered?

Emily 22:43
Yeah, maybe he did have red hair and like it, he was the standout. Everyone else had dark hair, and he felt self conscious to have this like different Look, I don’t know. Okay, so let’s get back to it back to talking about his life and his conquests. So gang is had this childhood friend that was kind of like a brother to him, and his name was Jim mukha. And after they rescued forte, gang, Kissinger, mukha kind of Allied themselves, I guess, went with one another, and stayed together to kind of start consolidating power. Unfortunately, we all know what powerful men are like, and they don’t always like to collaborate, or decide who’s in charge and who’s not. And as we said, last time, Dick swinging matches commenced. And so Jamaica asserted his authority, instead of treating Ganga as like a brother. And this created this super rift between them and actually started a two decade feud between these. Yeah, so

Rachel 23:51
he’s just keep a grudge.

Emily 23:52
Right. This feud started when they were 19. And like, as it started, he Ganga has left the camp he took along with him, many of Jamaica’s followers stole a bunch of his livestock, and was like peace, bro. Yeah. So a eight years later, when he was 27, Ganga has actually held a tribal council meeting with the Mongols, and they elected him Khan, or leader. Okay, so it was not like he was the con of all of Mongolia or like all of the Mongols. He was part of a sub clan of a cariad of a larger cariad clan. And so the cariad clan if you remember is that own con guy who had like taken him in as a foster child, so it’s like can you get clan and then there’s the sub clan, which is the one that Ganga says in charge of. So unfortunately, even though unchain was like kind to Kangas and took him in as a foster child. He kind of like played Gemma gun gang is off of one Each other one another, and got them fighting and you know, trying to compete and being like, oh, who’s better or whatever, and all came to a head and 1190 when Jim mukha rated Ganga says camp and terrorized his clan, and he was like dragging people behind horses and boiling captives alive. And like going ham on Ganga says clan. And so this actually backfired on him because the vicious attack turned a lot of his followers against him like they were just like, too far, bro. And so Jim mugas Clan actually united together with a bunch of the neighboring tribes. So the tribes were called, like the taters, which made me laugh tatertots taters.

As cute though, I know taters and the jerkins. And then Ganga has assimilated their people instead of like, kind of following the custom of looting them and leaving instead of being like, Oh, really, you’re here? I’m taking your shirt and getting out of here. He was like,

Rachel 26:04

Emily 26:05
Come to me. Which as we’ll hear as we go on is like a Ganga special. Like he’s like, I am consolidating power. And that is his whole move, you know?

Rachel 26:18
Yes, I’ll have the Ganga special place. What was that? I was just thinking like something dipped in as you you know, like a really powerful sandwich with a little bit of class. see a little bit of a French dip situation some?

Emily 26:36

Rachel 26:36
some truffle fries, perhaps getting gifts. Maybe I’m just hungry.

Emily 26:42
Because it’s so freakin good. So Jamaica still pissed. And he attacks both on Khan and Ganga is in 1201. And Ganga is was actually shot in the neck by an arrow. Oh my god. But he was able still to defeat and assimilate Jamaica’s remaining warriors. And so that was positive even though he got shot in the neck. But the power struggle really continued on and own con is like a man that gang is doing better than me and school. Total type three, you know, wanting to be the number one con, I guess if he decides to ambush Ganga is at a wedding ceremony, whose wedding ceremony owns daughter. And Ganga says son. It’s like Dad, you’re ruining my wedding. Like, seriously. So he’s like, sure your son can marry my daughter, but I’m still going to attack you at the wedding ceremony.

Rachel 27:45
Did you have one job at somebody else’s wedding? Just like show up. Don’t take focus. Don’t wear white. Don’t wear black just like show up and just be there.

Emily 27:54
That’s your only time you’re the father of the bride. You probably should be focused on some other things.

Rachel 27:59
Yeah, you’re supposed to. You’re supposed to nail them away, quote. It’s antiquated. But you know, people still do it. My dad is a true story. My dad walked me down the aisle. And instead of saying I do well, I think he did say I do when they’re like, you know, do you give this woman to be married or whatever? He said, No take backs. I was 28 year old woman. I was not living with my parents at the time. She’s your

Emily 28:30
problem. 99. Yeah. My God. That’s hilarious. Yeah, so luckily, the Mongols actually escaped the attack, and instead returned and conquered the carry IDs, aka own tribe. And so this is when Tim lusion officially became gayness. So once he had basically conquered the parent, tribe of his sub tribe, that’s when they were like, okay, you’re the captain now. Okay, got it. So from there, he began to basically conquer nearby tribes, and he gained strength each time by assimilating the defeated clans and tribes under his banner. So this is what put him on a path to uniting all of Mongolia, but it was right about now that his reputation for being super cold blooded became really apparent. You see, dangus not only was a vicious warrior, but as a leader, he also got a little bit I don’t wanna say genocide it, but like, kind of,

Rachel 29:41
maybe my favorite and simultaneously most horrifying, new adjective, you know, just

Emily 29:48
you got genocidy.

Rachel 29:52
genocidy. is the touch of the genocide. Just to touch.

Emily 29:55
He said, Any man that is taller than a cart So, which is chosen very tall? Okay. Like the axle of a cart

Rachel 30:05
like a wheel. Okay.

Emily 30:07
Yeah, the middle part of a wheel right basically not allowed to live that. All man. So basically anyone who is not a child and as a man

Rachel 30:16
Yeah, so water that is a little genocide brutal. Yeah,

Emily 30:19
super brutal it was strategic to him, he wanted to like call the adult population down of men to kind of remove the potential for uprisings in the future.

Rachel 30:32
It makes sense. It’s fucking awful

Emily 30:34
terrible. So he did that. Though, I did not really find much information on that, like, in terms of how many did he do? Is it really all of them? Because it couldn’t have been all of them? Because then he wouldn’t have an army left. So it may have just been like, as they brought new tribes in. He did that, you know, because he had to have kept some, some format of an army because they’re still out conquering, right? Sure. So he also is said to be the type of leader that like, asked people to pledge their loyalty to him. Oh, it’s possible he let some of those types of people

Unknown Speaker 31:15
show up.

Emily 31:16
So by the year 1206, gangers, had actually conquered most of Mongolia, and the remaining tribes were all forced to acknowledge Him as their leader. So let’s talk about why he was such a successful conqueror. One of the main reasons was essentially because the Mongol horde was just fucking extremely effective. Like they were on top of shit. They had bows and arrows, they rode their horses and like were able to shoot their arrows and overwhelm their opponents while they were like galloping on these horses, which, as you know, is very difficult. They’re like

Rachel 31:50
the fucking Dothraki Yeah, and Game of Thrones seriously, is based on Ganga ska,

Emily 31:57
it’s possible and like call Yeah, instead of calm right. seems interesting and close to me. So they were super known for Blitz attacking their opponent opponents, they’d show up and basically destroy things before anyone even knew I hit them. And it was claimed that they had such control over their horses that they could eat, sleep and fire weapons while on horseback, which isn’t to me quite as impressive as Attila the Hun his horses fought on his behalf. Yeah, but that’s not still pretty fucking impressive.

Rachel 32:30

Emily 32:30
And the reason why they were so good at horseback riding is apparently, Mongolians start training their children in archery and horsemanship at a very young age, like we’re talking three years old.

Rachel 32:47
I’m just trying to picture either one of my children on horses like they fall down off of they both today we’re trying to ride the same, like tiny tricycle, that’s a giraffe like it’s one of the scoot ones. And I kept telling them, you can’t both fit on that one of you is going to fall off and no sooner as I said that, that my daughter just like pull offs on Dewar. Like you can’t ride a horse, you can barely ride something that only moves when you do well.

Emily 33:17
So because that is how three year olds are, in general, it said that they would tie the children to the horse until they got it down to like how to stay on without God. Oh, by the time they’re of fighting age to actually go out and be in the army. It’s said that they have mastered how to achieve maximum accuracy by like, releasing the arrow. Just as the horses hooves all left the ground because there’s like one moment when you’re in a gallop that like none of the hooves are touching the ground. And so that would mean there’s no like, extra like movements on the horse. You know? So you’re like, airborne?

Rachel 33:59
They’re like Airbus. Yeah, no, they’ve got a horse physics working in their favor. I gotcha. It’s horse math. It’s fine.

Emily 34:06
It’s horse math. Okay. Horse math, everyone’s nightmare. Okay,

Rachel 34:12
my two least favorite things.

Emily 34:15
Matt and horses. So they were just basically fucking brutal conquerors super ruthless and how they approached fighting. And we’ll talk about that a little bit more later. But on top of that, Ganga is actually did have a lot of unique approaches to political systems, unlike how he organized his troops that made him extra effective. So I wanted to share some of those. First of all, communication was really believed to be the key to their success, which I’m like, as a communications professional, I agree. And so they would establish a command post every 30 miles throughout their land. And this is where writers could come and like, get in new horse and rest if they needed to, and pick up supplies and that kind of thing and like touch base with other people and make sure like they knew what was going on. In fact, it’s claimed that this nation, gangbusters nation was the first to implement like, a passport type system, which would allow horseback riders to deliver messages across the Empire because a writer would be able to like flash this medallion that he had and show his rank, kind of like, you know, with the password like you can say, like, here’s who I am, you can definitely see it based on this. And then like replenish his stocks and continue on his journey. So it just like, made it more efficient for them to be able to, like get across the country fast, easily identify themselves. So that was one innovation. Yeah, I guess that Ganga is instituted.

Rachel 35:50
They’re just really on it. Everything is so well oiled machines on top of it. Yeah, yeah,

Emily 35:56
absolutely. And in order to suppress typical tribal warfare that might happen internally within a tribe, he abolished inherited titles. He forbade the selling and kidnapping of women, right? He banned the enslavement of any other Mongol so you can enslave someone from the tribe. And he made livestock theft punishable by death. So these are all like your typical things that would create issues between different tribes. He was like, no bitches. Do not be naughty. I got my eye on you. Yeah, he’s like Santa. But worse.

Rachel 36:38
I mean, killer Santa.

Emily 36:40
Yeah, exactly. So he also ordered the adoption of a writing system, conducted a regular census, granted diplomatic immunity to foreign ambassadors, and allowed freedom of religion Well, before that idea caught on anywhere else. So he was very advanced for his time. And like you said, well oiled machine, he had a shit together, he had it like moving and grooving. So once all of Mongolia had been conquered, and Ganga was ruling over more than a million people, by this time, he starts to look outside, you know, he’s like, I’m bored. I want to take over some other empires. I want more. Now,

Rachel 37:24
it’s always what comes to my head when people are whining. I don’t know why, daddy. So

Emily 37:33
he launched a successful campaign against the Jin Dynasty, taking their capital, which was called xanga do which is near modern day Beijing in 2015. And it said that even though he had only 90,000 soldiers, and the jinn had over a million soldiers, they defeated them

Rachel 37:55

Emily 37:56
how how? Well, so they basically managed to deceive all their enemies, because they were so on top of shit. And so they created like an elaborate ruses

Unknown Speaker 38:09

Emily 38:10
Kind of like a Trojan horse situation. It said they like mounted dummies on horses so that they were like trying to fight people that weren’t actually people or they tied sticks to the horse’s tail so that there was a dust storm, and they couldn’t see what like where everybody was. So he conquered this massive dynasty. And after that, he turned his attention West and started to move deeper into Central Asia. So he’s just Hagen over. And after this, one of his most famous campaigns of revenge happened, so this was in 2019. And the leader of the Cold War’s mid K, hw is how it starts, who are quarz ID, mid cwop. ca, like a qu A. Smith, something like that. Empire broke a treaty with the Mongols. And so Ganga is actually was, you know, he was nice, and he offered the leader, a trade agreement. He said, okay, you broke our treaty, but we can exchange goods along the Silk Road. We can handle this right. And he sent some diplomats to the cosmid to like, pick up these goods, and they murder their diplomat. So that was stupid, low blow. Yeah. Right. This enraged Ganga. Yeah. And he basically responded by unleashing the full force of the Mongol horde onto the territories.

Rachel 39:46
The treaty like this is the complete opposite with a Tila, who was just like, I don’t want to treat you any more because I think I could squeeze some more money out of you. He’s like, yeah, you’re trying to be nice. Yes. I keep saying Tweety. You broke her. Free tea. I am not a doctor, but I’m still going to work with

Emily 40:06
buffering succotash Shut the fuck up.

So Oh, so this corpsmen place that I can’t pronounce is in Persia. And so Ganga has released the full force of his Mongol horde onto these territories in Persia. Some say that it was up to 200,000 men that were in Ganga says army at this point. And this attack was the one that was like notice notable for extreme fucking violence like even by Ganga is con standards. So he ruthlessly killed the leader who’d had his man his men killed on the Silk Road. Here’s how he killed the leader. He poured molten silver down his eyes and mouth. Oh, yeah, sounds horrific. Yeah. entire cities were sacked, inhabitants were murdered, fields and irrigation channels were destroyed. And it said that the Mongol troops were using captured soldiers as body shields while they were sieging cities like and then, literally just to spite the leader Ganga has diverted a river through that Emperor’s birthplace and erased it from the map.

Rachel 41:26
Oh my god

Emily 41:27
diverted a river to be like, you think you’re gonna be able to go home to your hometown bitch? Nope, it’s gone.

Rachel 41:33
It’s gone. It’s not even on the mask. Oh, can you see it on the fucking map?

Emily 41:37
I didn’t think so. You want to go home? You better be American. Okay.

Rachel 41:43
You better be able to swim bitch.

Emily 41:47
That is not all. The Mongols also burned farmland to starve the population. And they catapulted as you mentioned, diseased corpses over city wall that can affect the population that’s insane. So they would use infected bodies during the siege to basically throw bodies that had the Black Death into their territories or whatever. And so some sources have really truly said that they think this is what brought the Black Death to Europe because the body’s like harbored infected fleas and they you know, went from one territory to another and just like grew and grew and grew and took out a few million people no big thing no big deal. Can you just imagine like you’re just like, like doing something in your kitchen and washing a dish and a corpse

Rachel 42:44
your window? No, but now I have a new nightmare. So thanks. Yeah,

Emily 42:48
you’re welcome. I mean, I

Rachel 42:51
can’t catapult I’ve seen a dead body like at a funeral open casket sort of a situation which I find weird for a plethora of reasons. And that was a dead body that was like made to look like it still had some life in it which of course it didn’t and it’s extra creepy when they put makeup on it does matter.

Emily 43:12
But right for some reason I was like when did you see a corpse like I was like, Oh my god, did you find a murder?

Rachel 43:19
No, like the only place you’re supposed to see a corpse and just a picture even that coming through my window is

Emily 43:28
horrific. A very makeup and stiff grandma with her little like fake hairdo. Oh my god,

Rachel 43:34
no, our granny corpse flying through my window is horrific. You’re welcome.

Emily 43:39
Okay. So, in the end, this war against the CO RS mid left millions, millions dead. And that empire in utter ruin. Yes. So it is said that Ganga is Khan’s army killed so many Persians, which are actually modern day Iranian. So I guess the quarz med, were in Persia and Persia is now today, Iran. Okay. But so they killed so many of them that the population of Persia did not return to pre Mongol numbers until the 1900s. Wow, 700 years later, Oh, my

Rachel 44:25

Emily 44:27
Yeah. And they destroyed all the irrigation systems of current day Iran and Iraq, and basically turned back millennia of effort in building irrigation and drainage infrastructure in these regions. And that created a loss of available food and led to the death of probably many, many more people than the battle did. You know, like, tons of people died of starvation in the area because of them taking away their ability to grow crops.

Rachel 44:56
They were hurt.

Emily 44:58
Yeah. Big, big time. Now this million people dead situation did not stop gang guess Khan from deciding he wanted to continue conquering. And so we followed up on this victory by going back east, and decided to wage war on the tan guts, which was a group of Mongol subjects that had refused his order to provide like troops for his invasion, his previous invasion. And so he basically routed his forces to Tanka and like sacked their capital, and then order the execution of the entire tangut royal family as punishment for defiance. Yeah, off with there, yes. So basically, over the course of the century, he built the largest contiguous Empire in the history of the world, it was 12 million square miles of land that stretched from the Sea of Japan, to the grasslands of Hungary, in the heart of Europe. So to put that into context, now that he’s taken over all of Mongol, he’s taken over Persia, he’s taken over parts of China, the Mongol Empire grew four times the size of the one that was created by another great conqueror, Alexander the Great. And twice the size of the Roman Empire.

Rachel 46:20
Okay, big, it was big, unfathomable to me, and not just because I’m bad at math.

Emily 46:26
That’s so bad. Right? Right. So today, in those countries, in the countries that formed the Mongol Empire, 3 billion people live in those areas. So almost half of the world’s population live in those areas. Now, granted, the world was not that populated, but like, that’s how big this space this area was that it’s like half of the world. Yeah, the population essentially crazy. So a lot of people ask the question, why, like, why did he feel so compelled? Why did he launch all these quests and conquer these territories, especially so far outside of Mongolia? And there have been several ideas put forward, you know, it’s possible that, you know, the wars that they waged in Mongolia exhausted the country’s supply of animals. And so he like needed to rate other countries to prevent starvation. Another idea is that there were periods of dry weather, and that led him to seize new lands for his people. So they had better location. And then, you know, the probably more likely is that he felt he had some divine right to like, conquer the entire world

Unknown Speaker 47:36
some title.

Emily 47:37
Yeah, he was super entitled, I actually read a quote from him. I hope I can get it right, because I didn’t write it down. But it was something like, it’s not enough for me to succeed. My enemies also need to fail. Like, yeah, he was not just like, doing it for himself, like he wanted to conquer. Basically, whatever his reason was, this like rapid conquest, stunned, essentially, the whole world, like his war tactics were known. But as I mentioned before, he also like made all these innovations in the form of government and organization. And he transformed this previous nomadic kind of like scattered Empire to a society, essentially, yeah, a capable and functioning group of people. So that’s kind of like one of those things where we keep going back and forth, right, where it’s like, man, he really did a lot of good quote, unquote, but he’s also like, super fucking ruthless. Like, he celebrated a victory over Russians that he conquered by laying the survivors on the ground, and dropping a heavy wooden gate on them, and then had a victory banquet on top of it to suffocate the victims and crush them to death. What the fuck? Like,

Rachel 48:54
what the fuck? That is? The ultimate psychopath move? Yeah, that is so fucked up.

Emily 49:01
He’s like, this is gonna be so fun. They’re gonna have to hear us partying while they die.

Unknown Speaker 49:06

Rachel 49:06
I mean, when people say I’m going to dance on that person’s grave, that I think that’s maybe say, but that is like, actually doing it before they’re even. Like,

Emily 49:19
I know, it’s like dancing on their grave to kill. It is crazy. So he’s a psycho, basically.

Unknown Speaker 49:29
Yeah. But,

Emily 49:30
ya know, he’s just instituting these sophisticated administrative structures, systems of taxation, like all of these things. He’s he’s creating official positions for an orderly government he’s, you know, creating rules and regulations where things and like penalties for crimes that I had no apparent you know, like ownership to him. He’s like my crimes, only your crimes.

Rachel 49:55
My don’t count because I’m a

Emily 49:57
god. I’m a supreme ruler, you guys. Don’t count. Okay. So there’s just like all of these instances of him having these big, impactful political moves, but, you know, brutally killing people. At the same time, I will say he ordered all of his troops not to harm women or artisans. And he also told them to steer clear of clerics because he like super respected holy men from other faiths. And it’s, it’s believed that he followed a system of beliefs that like revolved around shamanism. And he sought out like they always priests, and it said that he was searching for a way for eternal life. So that may be part of why he was seeking out like Buddhists shamans and things like that, but who knows what’s interesting. So it’s actually impossible to know how many people truly perished during these Mongol conquests, but historians put the number at somewhere around 40 million. Let me say that again. 40 million,

Rachel 51:03
million. I, I didn’t even realize there were that many people, the 12th and 13th century like, Oh

Emily 51:10
my god, I know. So censuses from the Middle Ages show that the population of China plummeted by 10s of millions during his lifetimes and scholars estimate that he may have killed a full three fourths of modern day Iran’s population during that war. Yeah, it’s actually said that all told Mongol attacks probably reduce the entire world population by as much as 11% Oh, my God, is that fucking nuts plane insane. And a study by the Carnegie Institute for science noted that the annihilation of so many human beings and their like urban centers and everything like that, may have scrubbed as much as 700 million tons of carbon from the atmosphere, and allowed forests to like regrow on previously populated uncultivated lands. So it was like a plus one for climate and a negative one for human life.

Rachel 52:12
I mean, that’s kind of like COVID right when everybody was staying home, and they posted those pictures of where everything that was usually polluted and super populated areas like la all of a sudden, we’re clear at Blue skies, and I’m going to hell in a handbasket right now.

Emily 52:30
Crazy pictures of the canals in Venice, I think that were blue for the first time like, yeah, crazy. It’s really like this is literally in three weeks time showing how much we’re fucking up the environment just by existing like, yeah, Next, we need to control the climate. Okay, I’m not going to start there. Yeah, another impact on the world that came from all of Ganga. scons attacks is that there’s like a noticeable lack of Chinese literature from the Jin Dynasty, predating the Mongol conquest. When gangers attacked the Jin Dynasty. Apparently, he took or he had his people take any books, literature, paperwork, like anything historical records, threw them into the river to get rid of them. And it said that they did it in such quantities, that it turned the Tigris River black with my God, and it also says for several months, but I’m kind of like, okay, that’s probably hyperbole, but like, it’s basically Oh, and it also said, another account said that the number of books thrown into the water formed a bridge that would support a man on horseback. So they just like we’re like sorry, here’s all your history books and every like note you’ve ever taken about your culture and shit like that?

Rachel 53:51
Fuck you. Oh, yeah.

Emily 53:54
flush it down the toilet just like I did the math paper. I got to 26% on when I was in fourth grade. I loved it all up. Okay, so one of the kind of like enigmas surrounding his life is how he died. Yeah, traditional narrative. So he died in 1227 from injury sustained in a fall from a

Rachel 54:13
horse. That seems unlikely

Emily 54:15
right? Other sources list everything from malaria to an arrow wound in the knee which is like why has survived the one the fucking neck? No, it’s like you think you’d be okay. But there was another questionable account that claims that he was murdered because he was trying to force himself on a Chinese princess. But you know, no one really actually knows kind of like Attila the Hun, like no one actually asked and just like Attila the Hun, they took great pains to keep his final resting place a secret. And according to legend, his funeral procession slaughtered everyone that came in contact with during their journey, and then repeatedly rode horses over his grave to grave to conceal it. So people are kind of thinking it Probably in a Mongolian mountain. But the precise location still unknown, no one knows where he’s buried just like Attila the high school. After his death, his son oak die succeeded him until his own death in 1241. And after that his grandchildren and future successors kind of started to get contested. There were disputes there were wars, and eventually, the Empire broke down into different states a similar fate to that of the hunnic Empire. So one final note, one thing that I did not get into very much was his family.

Rachel 55:36
Yeah. Ah.

Emily 55:42
So even though gang is was out conquering all the damn time, he still had time for a little bit of romance. Because Yeah, Taylor had four wives. Yeah, guess how many gangers had? Oh, he

Rachel 55:55
only mentioned one. Let me think six.

Emily 55:59
It is said that Genghis Khan had 500 wives.

Rachel 56:06
Okay, that’s just superfluous you don’t need that many was like, come on. Yeah. You don’t have to marry everybody. You stick your dick. Like every time his dick was exposed, he’s all boob we’re married now.

Emily 56:18
Marry, boom. Like No, you’re pregnant. It’s a little love them are like given to him by opposing rulers as peace offerings. And of course, I’m sure people he conquered and things like that. It’s like you’re my wife. Now. You’re my wife. Now. Bring me the hottest woman in your town.

Rachel 56:36
Now, I’ve killed her husband. What do you say? He’s not taller than an axe? Son of a bitch.

Emily 56:46
Which, okay, so 500 wives to me seems like a tall tale. But their husband groundbreaking historical genetics done. Even as soon as recent as in 2003, that reported that there is a substantial proportion of men in the world right now, that are direct line descendants from Ganga is Khan. Nearly 8% of Asian men are direct descendants from Ganga scon, which is about 16 million people with one common ancestor.

Rachel 57:21
Oh my god.

Emily 57:23
So was he a father? Yes, yes, Rachel. He was. He was the father to Oh, Who’s your daddy Ganga? Scott is your dad.

Rachel 57:32
I mean, look, I’m gonna have to give him the fight against Attila. First of all, he sounds like 100% Second of all, bad boys. Who we like, oh, you’re like Who’s your daddy, which normally is not a phrase I’m into. But I’m just like, No, you know, he kind of he is the daddy. He really? He’s literally your daddy.

Emily 57:57

Rachel 57:57
probably. Allegedly. Yeah,

Emily 58:01
I am with you. After I read this. I was like, What the fuck are those articles even talking about? Obviously gangs con would win in a fight. He was brutal. And he conquered way more. Granted for 35 ad and 1200 ad are very different time brands are like, the number of people in the world was probably different. So I don’t know, like, proportionately how it like ways out but

Rachel 58:31
it’s not a matter that it sounds like he was smarter. Like Attila. Yeah, he could come on. What’s the guy bangs McGee over there,

Emily 58:39
bang, but just a couple of

Rachel 58:42
people remember whenever you know, but he didn’t he couldn’t do it in the same way that you’re talking about gang is doing it, where he’s implementing all of these policies that are actually helpful. So I’m going to assume, even though he conquered these places, he was still fairly beloved by other people until I didn’t play that game. So I would think that Ganga is even I’m not even picturing just a one on one battle games is going to have more support.

Emily 59:07
Oh, yeah. I mean, truly, truly To this day, it is quite the debate of like no Ganga is Khan is someone we should respect and like LOD and magnify and I don’t think Attila the Hun has that. Like I don’t think anyone’s really looking at him and thinking like, Well, yeah, but he did a lot of good to

Rachel 59:28
he was a selfish prick.

Emily 59:29
Yeah, I don’t think there was at all of that conversation happening.

Rachel 59:32
Don’t get me wrong kangaskhan is a

Emily 59:34
psychopath as dangus is like on their money still. Yeah, like 100% kind of a hot one. Hot a psychopath boom, fuck you Ted Bundy.

Rachel 59:46
Type honey is not hot like I will. That is a hill that I will die on. Hop for a serial killer is not hot. Not hot.

Emily 59:56
Also, that is I mean it’s an abridged version. There’s like a 1000 more documents that I could have read Not to mention I was traveling this week. So I was on an abbreviated timeline to do research. But I mean, this dude went ham all over the country in Asia and Russia and everywhere and so I know Russia is part of Asia. You guys don’t fuck with me. I’m not stupid. I just get talking.

Rachel 1:00:23
I just don’t understand geography or mouth.

Emily 1:00:26
I’m not stupid. I just don’t understand many of the basic concepts of human life like time.

Rachel 1:00:33

Emily 1:00:34
let’s do genetics tests and see if we’re descended from.

Rachel 1:00:38
I am the least Asian person. I’m like 100%. White.

Emily 1:00:44
Yeah. All right, lady. That’s all I got for you. So

Rachel 1:00:49
today, I am taking us to Seneca Falls, New York. It is a small town in upstate New York and it boasts wine and women’s history, which are two of our favorite things. Mm hmm. So if we were to visit we would of course check out the winery is Hello, like Montezuma winery, so they specialize in fruit and honey wines and the family’s patriarch George Martin was a beekeeper before transitioning his family into the wine business. Oh, which I think is adorable, so cute. Their most popular wine is a cranberry bog. And the winery sits very near to Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge. So if you’re doing a tasting, you can check out some rare birds that might be flying by including bald eagles, which is pretty cool.

Emily 1:01:39
Bald eagles are amazing. We at the farm last summer, there was one that kind of hung out on the farm. And it flew really low like past us, my mom and I just happened to be standing like at the window looking at it and it was fucking massive. Like, the wingspan of those things is crazy. Of course,

Rachel 1:02:01
we’d also need to visit the women’s rights Historical Park. We can learn all about the first women’s rights convention that was held July 19 through 20th 1848.

Emily 1:02:12
Wow, that’s a long time ago. Go bad man go in.

Rachel 1:02:19
For the record, it was organized by Quakers which I thought was interesting. And it had some big names like Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Oh, and Frederick Douglass nice. And for the record, we could also visit Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s home because she was from Seneca, Seneca Falls, and the National Women’s Hall of Fame. And after an informative day of feminism, we could check out the Cayuga Seneca canal. And I found a couple of places that do boat rights. So it might be really fun to go have boat ride on the

Emily 1:02:54
canal. Um, I was just gonna say my friend Erica, who I went saw this weekend. She’s going on vacation with her boyfriend and they’re doing a cub brewing trip. Or covering day it is that and it’s kayaking, where you kayak to different breweries. And it’s like a bar crawl. But you like kayak between them to get that. I was like, that sounds so much fun. And like also dangerous.

Rachel 1:03:25
Yeah, I was thinking, what if you drop your paddle and then you’re just stuck in the middle of the water? How me? Okay, sorry, you’re good. So Emily, as you may have guessed, because of the location, I’m going to be talking about a suffragette today. Bet not Elizabeth Cady Stanton or Susan B. Anthony. Today, I’m going to talk to you about someone that I had never heard before. Amelia Bloomer. Never heard of her perfect. But first, a little world history context. So a couple of weeks ago, I talked about the Romanov assassination in 1918, which for some reason feels like for ever ago. I know it was, you know, 100 years ago, which is a long time, but also, for some reason. Romanovs feel like early 1800s. I don’t know. Yeah. But just a couple of years later, on August 18 1920, the 19th amendment was ratified and women finally won the right to vote after about a century of fighting. So that was a contemporary event that Romanov assassination and then women earning the right to vote

Emily 1:04:39
that’s fucked up in my brain like my brains not reconciling that because I, I think of the Romanovs is like, ancient history almost. But I think of the 19th amendment as within like, not our lifetime, but you know, like within the modern timeframe, right.

Rachel 1:05:00
One It was weird. We’ll talk about that a little bit more I saw on Tick tock, you know, very relevant source of information is. Yeah, I like it. What’s the word I’m looking for? It’s super factual. That apparently Martin Luther King Jr. and Anne Frank were born in the same year. Like, yeah,

Emily 1:05:22
I know. It’s like I think of Anne Frank is so much longer ago than that.

Rachel 1:05:26
Yes, yes.

Emily 1:05:28
But think if she would have lived spoiler alerts, guys, um, Oh, God, she would have been like the same age as MLK, which is crazy. Okay.

Rachel 1:05:39
Let’s back up a little further. Amelia Jenks bloomer, was born in rural New York in 1818. So that is very far away a couple 100 years ago. She began her career as a teacher. But when she moved to Seneca Falls in 1840, after marrying David bloomer, she became enveloped in the suffragette movement. she volunteered at church and she was super involved in the local temperance movement. If you’ll remember from Episode 29, when I talked about Louise Windsor, Cara Nebraska’s bootlegging Queen, a lot of suffragettes were also fighting for temperance. I did a little research into this. And the reason is because suffragettes wanted women to vote on issues that they thought were important to women, oh, Lady stuff, like protecting their homes and families. And there are a couple of reasons for them linking temperance to protection. Um, firstly, women were believed to be superior to men and the waves of spirituality and morality, they put a lot of social pressure and responsibility on themselves. And they weren’t necessarily just wanting to help these like poor unfortunate drunk men, women were not legally protected against violence from their husbands. So if a man was drunk and abusive shit out of luck, most women are not super educated. They don’t live independently, they can own property. If you marry an abusive, alcoholic, man, you are stuck with him with no legal protection.

Emily 1:07:18
Not a fan.

Rachel 1:07:19
Yeah, yeah, fucked up. So they think like, the way to get women on board passionate about earning the right to vote is to say, Hey, this is for you. And we’re gonna vote for temperance so you’re drunk ass has been can’t drink anymore, and then maybe he won’t be such a dick.

Emily 1:07:37
There’s the connection. I was kind of like, how does that connect with temperance, but that makes sense now.

Rachel 1:07:43
So Amelia attended the Seneca Falls convention in 1848, where she got to listen to Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Lucretia Mott talk about women’s rights. Amelia was so inspired by these amazing women that she founded a newspaper called the Lilly, which was dedicated to gender equality. And at first, it was only really writing about temperance, and it was published bi weekly. And Fun fact, it was the first American newspaper that was edited by a woman. And it was so popular, she started writing about more topics than temperance and putting out a weekly issue.

Emily 1:08:24
I would like kill to see some of those as someone who has a degree in journalism like, that sounds incredible. I

Rachel 1:08:30
wonder if we could find them. I’ll do a little googling and hopefully be able to post something. And if not, just ignore this part.

Emily 1:08:39
No promises.

Rachel 1:08:40
No fucking promises. Don’t put. Don’t you put that evil on me record. Bobby. Before we get more into her story, let’s leave Emilia in 1848 New York, breaking glass ceilings and fighting the good fight while we jump back into historical context, because this shit was blowing my mind. So women were not the only ones fighting for equality in America. As most of us know, the Civil War was only about a decade off. It started in 1861. Our friends across the pond are about a decade into Queen Victoria’s reign, and all of the horrible fashion that came with it. So even though in my head, the Civil War and Victorian era England are not the same time period, they actually are they’re the same fucking time period.

Emily 1:09:30
What the fuck like we need to create a little infographic thing that be like, compare things that are this little

Rachel 1:09:35
Venn diagram situation. So while suffragettes are fighting for equality, they are also being inspired by a time and fashion in which it was scandalous to show the ankle they are wearing corsets, petticoats and petticoats, heavier skirts in addition to the crushing weight of the patriarchy. Ah, patriarchy. The police and patriarchy. Not only were Victorian era clothes uncomfortable, they were dangerous. corsets make it very hard to breed, and crinolines which are the hoops that women wore to make their skirts stick out and that perfectly round way. Were the lamb a bowl. So remember about our overlaps in history and our brain that don’t make sense. So in addition to Victorian time and civil war times, their early to mid 1800s is also a time of industrial revolution. So between 1850 and 18 63,000, women were burned to death, because their credit lines caught on fire. 3000 women, their bulky layers were also known to get caught in machinery which could injure even kill them out.

Emily 1:10:54
Don’t like don’t like

Rachel 1:10:58
it is dangerous to be a woman in the 1800s they are literally and figuratively beatdown, and still today. So, Amelia Bloomer had a thought that honestly sounds like something she might have learned in therapy had therapy been super popular or, you know, like, what not to wear. And that was the thing. If she could change the clothes could she changed the way that women felt and perceived ourselves? Yes, in 1851, Amelia read an editorial that was actually written by a man who was a recent supporter of women’s suffrage, he suggested women wear, quote, Turkish pantaloons and a skirt reaching a little below the knee as an alternative to their current clothes. Oh, now, I don’t love that this idea came from a man, however, being more comfortable and less flammable. Absolutely sounds like a win, love, love it. Then around the same time that she read this article, Amelia saw Elizabeth Smith Miller, who was Elizabeth Cady Stanton’s cousin in Turkish trousers that she had designed herself. Her rationale was that the long Victorian skirts made it too hard for her to cordon. So she was essentially wearing loose pants that had her ankles underneath a skirt that went down to her calf. So she’s wearing like a mini skirt with kind of flowy pantaloon type things underneath.

Emily 1:12:25
Okay, I’ll post pictures seems like an extra layer, but

Rachel 1:12:29
yeah, yeah, we’re still lady still can’t wear pants. Don’t Don’t be crazy, Emily, ladies camera.

Emily 1:12:36
But if you’re gonna wear pants, you gotta wear skirt overtop. You

Rachel 1:12:38
gotta wear like a mini dress situation over your pants, much like we did in the early 2000s. Not grades sports. Do you remember when people were wearing dresses and jeans?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:49
They was a thing. Oh, God. That’s right. I never did but that was stupid.

Rachel 1:12:56
I definitely wear a lot of leggings and dresses and long shirts that were supposed to be like dresses, but we’re actually shirts with leggings under mistake. Yeah, yes. jeans. No, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. So, Amelia Bloomer was into this fashion. And she had a platform as the editor of the lily and the idea sparked like crystalline and a lightning storm. That’s really proud of that line when I wrote it. Okay, people were doing the mid 1800s version of rate review and subscribe which PS you should do to this podcast? Hey, and because please, Amelia started the fire. This outfit metaphorically went from being called Turkish pantaloons, or even a freedom dress to being called.

Emily 1:13:49
glamorous. Amelia started the fire. Yeah, sorry.

Rachel 1:13:53
It’s not the same thing. That’s

Emily 1:13:54
amazing because her last name was bloom murmur or, okay, nice.

Rachel 1:13:59
Cool when you’ve heard pants being called bloomers, it’s after her love that we

Emily 1:14:02
know that now.

Rachel 1:14:04
Love. Emilio wrote, quote, as soon as it became known that I was wearing a new dress, letters came pouring in upon me by hundreds from women all over the country, making inquiries about the dress and asking for patterns, showing how ready and anxious women were to throw off the burden of long heavy skirts. In August of 1851. American suffragettes brought the trend to Victorian England, they wore bloomers to the world peace Congress in London. Hey, English, ladies, you don’t have to wear these happy dresses, wear pants. But don’t forget your skirt. Okay. I don’t know exactly where to put this in the story because it’s not relevant, but it is really interesting and part of Emilio’s legacy. Amelia Bloomer was also the person who introduced Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, which I find really Cool, right? But back to the bloomer next shows as is known to happen when people find their voice, there was some backlash the probably white sis male media called bloomers. Well, I sort of shemale dress. And bloomer writes, as the ladies who were wearing it was called were harassed on the streets. Men shouted that they would not vote for a man whose wife wore the bloomers.

Emily 1:15:30
Clever. I’m rolling my eyes so hard right

Rachel 1:15:32
now. Yeah, I thought your screen was frozen it roll for a long time. It’s like your wife doesn’t just were the parents. She wears the bloomers. Good word chat. Thanks, Chad. It’s just like,

Emily 1:15:46
in parks and rec when they want her to participate in the pie baking contest and like, my wife doesn’t have to do that. You won’t vote for you. You don’t like men and everything so

Rachel 1:16:01
it’s exactly like that. And honestly, in a real world example, it reminds me of what happened in the Zoot Suit riots in 1943. If you can assume that someone has a certain value system by the way they dress then you can attack them for said values. If women had the audacity to wear pants, what else would they do that wasn’t lady like smoke cigarettes. Stop cooking for men work outside the home that goddamn nerve. gassed by this? aghast I wish I could say it was only the real life trolls who were anti comfort and anti feminism. But Elizabeth Cady Stanton said that her father banned her from wearing bloomers at his house. Eventually, she stopped wearing glimmers completely returning to uncomfortable and dangerous Victorian dresses. She wrote, quote, we put on the dress for greater freedom. But what is physical freedom compared with mental bondage? So sad? Sad. Amelia Bloomer kept literally wearing the pants for quite a while and for the record, her husband was very supportive of her. Yeah, about six to eight years. Unfortunately, she eventually acquiesced under the pressure, returning to all the layers of petty codes and long skirts. She did try to reframe this as a victory. She wrote, quote, we all felt that the dress was drawing attention from what we thought of a far greater importance, the question of women’s right to better education, to a wider field of employment for better remuneration for her labor, and the ballot for protection of her rights. in the minds of some people, the short dress and women’s rights were inseparably connected with us. The dress was about an incident. And we were not willing to sacrifice greater questions to it. Emilio’s theory about the backlash was that when ladies wore pants, men saw them as more like themselves. Basically, it’s this mindset that there isn’t enough equality for all of us, and you all are just not going to have rights. You’re going to take our breaks away. If you have it, then I can’t have it as a

Emily 1:18:25
yes to there’s enough for everyone.

Rachel 1:18:28
Yeah, it’s not finite. Like there’s not a finite amount of equality in the world. And it’s something that unfortunately, America in particular, I won’t speak for other countries still really struggles with. So the recoil from bloomers lasted for decades. Really? Yes. ladies who wore the pants? underneath a dress mind you were seen as subversive and lewd. It’s crazy. But women wearing pants was not a socially accepted trend until the 1960s. Over 100 years after Amelia Bloomer started wearing them. Wow. Hmm.

Emily 1:19:07
I just can’t i can’t wrap my head around. Pants being loose. Yeah, over everything. What the hell?

Rachel 1:19:15
It’s just honestly switching from dresses to pants. It’s like what’s less comfortable and what can we sledge shame you for? Yep, that’s what we want to do. Apparently, as a country. Um, in my opinion, suffragettes had to play the game, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Susan B. Anthony, for example, used to wear a red shawl around her neck, but she dressed plain and matronly, which men found less threatening, therefore, they would listen to her. So this is a pretty short story. And the reason that I’m categorizing it as horrible history is twofold. Number one, women went back to dressing uncomfortably in order to increase men’s comfort levels for another 100 years. That number To a woman deciding her physical comfort was valuable, almost derailed the women’s suffrage movement, good lord, because they took them less seriously when they were dressed more comfortably.

Emily 1:20:13
It’s so crazy to me, be less comfortable for the sake of other people’s comfort fact that it’s just I feel like women in general have a lot of stupid rules placed on their bodies, internally and externally because of other people’s comfort level. Totally. And it’s just, I’m tired of it.

Rachel 1:20:34
Yeah, that’s my whole story of Amelia Bloomer and the pants that almost derailed the suffragette movement. If you are interested in Victorian fashion. It’s my week for happy hour with horrible history, which is available for our patrons at the $5 and up level. I’m going to be talking about killer Victorian fashion. Hmm, all those 3000 women that died, not them specifically, but believe it or not crinolines. We’re not the only things that could kill you. And there are multiple, multiple examples of ways that you could be killed by clothes in the 1800s and I’m going to talk about a bunch of them.

Emily 1:21:09
Oh, I’m excited. I love fashion. Not the cat kills you. But in general.

Rachel 1:21:14
Yeah, so be pretty fun.

Emily 1:21:16
I had never heard of her before. And I never I actually had never heard of bloomers being like worn underneath of a skirt or whatever. And that’s just crazy to me that something so stupid like women wearing pants could potentially could almost derail such an important move. Good lord. Yeah.

Rachel 1:21:35
fucking crazy.

Emily 1:21:36
So yeah, for sure. Good job.

Rachel 1:21:39
No, thank you and horrible. If you’re interested, like I said, patreon.com slash horrible history.

Emily 1:21:46
You can also find us on social media. We’re at Tick Tock and Instagram at horrible history pod. And of course, you can always find us on Patreon. As Rachel just mentioned, listen to her Victorian murder closed episode. That’s patreon.com slash horrible history. And if you join us at the $10 neck level, we are like hatching some new exciting content that will make sure for you. So you’ll definitely want to check that

Rachel 1:22:19
out. You can also be old school send us your places that you want us to go on the podcast cases that you want us to cover. Also, send us your travel stories because we do talk about them and where in the world is horrible history, which is the weeks that we don’t do happy hour. We talk about travel stories, or just you know if you’ve been to hungry fuckin Tell us about it because we’d love to read it on that episode. Yeah. Hey, yo, thanks so much for listening.

Emily 1:22:45
Hopefully you’re horrified.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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