Home » Episodes » Episode 31 – Hungary & Stockholm, Sweden (The Party Has Just Begun!)

On Episode 31, Emily talks about one of history’s most ruthless rulers, Attila the Hun. Plus, spoiler, next week she will be talking about Ghengis Khan so that we can all decide “Who Is Worse!?” Then, Rachel digs into the minds of hostages by sharing the story of the bank robbery of Sveriges Kreditbanken and the first known instance of Stockholm Syndrome. 

Content/Trigger Warnings: gruesome violence 


Emily 0:14
Hi, welcome to horrible history. I’m Emily Barlean.

Rachel 0:18
And I’m Rachel Everett Lozon. How are you?

Emily 0:21
I’m really good. I don’t know if you can actually hear it. But I feel like my voice has the like, you know, sticky shoes like Phoebe’s situation. And I don’t know why. So I painted my deck today, I like literally woke up at nine and was like, I’m gonna paint my fucking deck today. And I like went to Lowe’s, and I got all this stuff. And then from 1030 until five, I was outside in the sun. And so I feel like shit. And somehow that has coordinated or correlated to my voice being scratchy, hopefully not too bad, but shoes, my sticky

Rachel 1:04
shoes I cut my cold stole it is more like it. I don’t think you sound all that different. You always have kind of a sultry vibe going on. I also was outside only for like a half hour, I don’t have nearly the willpower to and also I’m terrified of the sun. I’m very pale.

Emily 1:29
But I’m tan now. It’s like all of a sudden, here we go.

Rachel 1:33
So jealous I was. So I’ve been trying to be more environmentally friendly since COVID, like switch to cloth napkins. And I was composting last summer and then kind of fell off the composting wagon. So I have a side yard that has some raised garden beds that it’s just too late in the season, I’m not going to do all that work for nothing. So I left those as is but the path in front of them was just covered with weeds. And

Unknown Speaker 1:57
we post the other side of this garden bed like I can’t get to them. But yes,

Rachel 2:03
well and so I brought the kids outside and was like, let’s all you guys played mommy’s got a little bit of weeding to do they didn’t want to play they wanted to sit there and help me pull weeds which Listen, it’s cute. It’s cute that my kids want to help. But they pull up one weed at a giant clump of dirt and then throw it into the garbage bag next to me. Meanwhile, it’s just raining. Thank you for your help children,

Emily 2:31
you’re so helpful that you were like, covered in dirt. And I was after laughing because when I came inside, I looked at myself and I was like, and I don’t have children splashing paint at me. But I was head to toe cover because one I had to be down on my hands and knees to paint the deck. So it was like on my legs and then I was painting underneath of it. So it was dripping on me and I was trying not to let it you know, I was just like, whatever it’s fine. Mass but

Rachel 3:05
good shit done.

Emily 3:07
We don’t need no man Oh,

Rachel 3:11
my god for one day on vacation. Not like he left but chipper about it my husband for one day. He’s visiting a friend so I got to go see Emily a couple of weeks ago without kids without husband. So he gets to go see his friend in California this weekend. So I’m solo parenting, which like, honestly, is not that different. Like I’m a stay at home parent and also a full time work parent. Cuz I am a therapist for those of you who are new and see my clients from home. So like, I’m pretty much you know, all day with my kids anyway. And then I see clients in the evening. So yeah, the only thing that’s really different is I’m adding bedtime to my normal routine. Is he only

Emily 3:52
gone for one day? Or when does he come home? He’s

Rachel 3:55
gone today. Today is Sunday. And then he’s gone Monday and then he’ll be back Tuesday afternoon. We’re picking him up three or four and he left yesterday afternoon. Oh, yeah. So comparable to your trip. That’s awesome. Yeah, yeah. So Lincoln, my son comes in when I’m taking a shit and it’s like, Mommy, how many days is daddy gone? for five bucks like two days. Two more sleeps? Get back in bed. Can I please have some fucking privacy? Tom, there’s a great

Emily 4:22
anywho hustlers are great. Okay, so I’m going first today. And after you did Julius Caesar, and then the Romanovs inspired me to go way, way back in history. You know, as we heard when you did Caesar, I don’t quite understand how time works. So I’m only going back to the ad timeframe, but it’s still a long time ago. Okay. So before I tell you where I’m going, or who I’m doing, I wanted to share a little background on like, why I chose this story, which I just did sort of but also like, as I was researching these horror rulers of the past people who like pillaged and raped in over through cities and murdered, because horrible history right?

Rachel 5:08
Well, or as we like to call it here on horrible history, history history

Emily 5:17
well I started seeing a lot of articles about like this comparison of who was worse Ganga is Khan, or Attila the Hun. And one it kind of reminded me of my brother because he, when he was a little kid, he would like plague my dad with questions like this, but it was more like, who would win in a fight Duke who was our dog, or a Wolverine or like that to Duke or a moose? We’re always like, um, is never with us. It was against like a cat. Maybe. She was very timid, though, but so anyways, as I was researching this, I honestly like couldn’t really decide what to do. And so I’m not saying that this is a two parter. Technically, these are standalone stories, but I’m doing something we’ve never done before in that I’m telling you what my story is going to be next week because I decided I needed to do both of these men. So this week, I’m going to 435 ad to tell you the story of PFLAG alum day, which is Latin for the scourge of God, Jesus, okay, better known as Attila, King of the Hun.

Rachel 6:34
Okay, and we’re doing it in Hilah.

Emily 6:37
Next week, you’ll hear about kangaskhan, the emperor of Mongolia in the 1200s and beyond. So, okay, well, you’ll enjoy today and then Tune in next week. So you can like, decide for yourself who was worse, who would win in a fight.

Rachel 6:52
I am so excited about this. And also, I plugged last podcast in the left way too much. They don’t need our fucking help. But like they’re doing, are they paying us? Yeah, they’re doing a four part series right now in the Black Death that I started listening to yesterday morning. And they were mentioning that one of the ways that got to Europe was from like Angus carms army of dead people. And they just, I think they were like flinging dead bodies over the walls and like, they were battling to guys. Yeah, they’re talking about how the 14th century was one of historically the worst times to be alive. Because of all the things that could kill you. Like, you know,

Emily 7:36
dead potato famine, and all kinds of shit.

Rachel 7:40
Giant fleas try to kill you. Yeah. So they just kind of mentioned gangers con in passing. And I don’t really know that much about him. Except that, you know, bad dude. So I’m stoked to learn more about both of them. And then after next week, maybe you guys can write us in horrible history. podcast@gmail.com, who would win in a fight or a tailor the head,

Emily 8:04
you’ll have to wait to find out all the nasty shit they did. But I got that preamble out of the way. I’m going to go backwards because I want to tell you about hungry. Because this, after all, is still a podcast about terrible events that happened in beautiful places. And so let’s first talk about travel tips for anyone going to Hungary, Hungary, Hungary, Hungary, Greece. I’m hungry as their next destination. So Hungary is obviously a country pretty big place. So let’s narrow in a bit. Attila was born in pannonia, which was a province of the Roman empire that would be in present day trans danubia, which is a region not a city. So transcend new BIA is made up of all the country West at the Danube River. So linguists maybe could have picked that out from just the name but there’s like a ton of areas or a ton of places to go within this area that could be fun to visit. You know, there’s Lake Balaton, which is a resort, there’s these hills, their mountains with cultural centers and all kinds of things dense forest, it’s like, sounds like a pretty beautiful place. Yeah. But this cultural center of transphobia is the historic city of veszprem or vez priem that he has little thing on, you know what I mean? I’m like, No, but go ahead. You know, a little, like an accent. Like, yeah, that’s it. That’s what I’m trying to tell. But what’s that other thing called an accent? Okay. Sorry. So it has helped resorts and wineries so I kind of think we’d start there. Yeah. And they’re really cool places to visit. I think exactly the kind of shit that you and I would like, like old architecture and like beautiful buildings that we would want to go see. I actually couldn’t find a ton of information. Like what exactly some of these things were because I kept running into a lot of sites that were in Hungarian, I guess would be whatever language it is. But it did look like there was a big Cathedral called St. Michael’s which apparently you would love because I did not know it, but you love cathedrals and churches. I did. That’s exciting. And they have this thing called the zella chapel, which is named after Queen gizella. The wife of King Stephen the first and it’s this big picture of a chapel that features 13th century life size frescoes of six of the apostles, which I’m like, yeah. And there’s this cool place called Benedict’s tip, which is kind of like an observation spot. It’s like a cliff that’s kind of above the whole city and you look out over the city and it’s all those houses with the red roofs like, they all look the same, and I just so picturesque, I love it. And then on a creepier note, I did see that they had a puppet theater. No and the puppets in the picture looked scary. I didn’t like that. Are they

Rachel 11:17
like marionettes on the strings? Those puppets are like

Emily 11:21
their hand puppet like hand puppets. And just I’ll I’ll post a picture of what it looked like. But I was like, that would give me more nightmares and the precious moments museum like maybe

Rachel 11:33
not all fancy. Yeah. puppets, mannequins, things that kind of look like people but aren’t people dressing your pets and weird outfits? It’s all the same.

Emily 11:45
It hearkened back to something I know I’ve seen before. That was creepy. But I can’t place it but I’ll try to describe it. So you know it. It was like a head and a body and the head is this longer, like white face with a pointed nose like black eyes. And just a stripe, like a single line as a mouth. I know. I’ve seen something similar in some Halloween cartoon or something. But anyways,

Rachel 12:14
freaked me out. Sounds like a murderous sock puppy. Burning so much that I’m like sock puppy. What are those things go sock puppy.

Emily 12:24
It did look like a puppy more than a monkey? Yeah. Okay. All right. So that is what I know about hungry. Let’s talk about Attila the Hun. So Attila, for those of you who don’t know, is known as one of the greatest of the Barbarian rulers who assailed the Roman Empire. So he’s an invader, he invades Southern Balkan provinces in Greece and then Gaul which is present de France, by the way. And Italy, as you know. Like, he was constantly conquering different areas, right? So when I hear a barbarian ruler, I don’t know about you, but like, I have a specific picture in my mind as to what a barbarian is, right?

Rachel 13:14
Mm hmm. Like a cartoon like the Barbarian or something. Maybe? Greg something, Carl?

Emily 13:20
I don’t know. Yeah, I want to think of it. I feel like it’s on the tip of my tongue. Conan

Rachel 13:27
is it Conan?

Emily 13:29
Conan the Barbarian?

Rachel 13:31
barberia is a 1982 film and then again, oh, Arnold Schwarzenegger started I knew it and they read it in 2012.

Emily 13:41
Oh my gosh. How about like, you know, I picture like, big dirty, like Arnold

Rachel 13:46
Schwarzenegger. Yeah, like, but like, like fat Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Emily 13:51
Dirty, dirty and kind of like an educated and I don’t know a little bit caveman ish, whatever.

Rachel 13:58
Yeah, very matted hair.

Emily 14:00
Yeah. So I was kind of shocked to learn that Attila was not raised in poverty. He was not an educated he was not unclean. In fact, he was like, far from all of those things. He was born the beginning of the fifth century into the most powerful family north of the Danube River. And so his uncle’s aka Tarr Andrew gilla, who is sometimes known as rouga jointly ruled the Hun Empire in the late 420s and early for 30s. And so during that time, Attila and his older brother bleeder, received instruction in archery and sword fighting and how to ride and care for horses and they learn to speak and read Gothic and Latin and they learn military and diplomatic tactics like sounds a lot more like the way I picture like little princes growing up in England, you know, not barbarian leaders very

Rachel 14:58
like Stark family and Game of Thrones to me in the in the very first part of the first season

Emily 15:06
first season Yes, very much. So that is a great way to picture it for sure. And even said that they were likely present when their uncle’s received Roman ambassadors like they were being brought up to be the next rulers. So they were actually like privileged young men. They were wealthy, they had an education. And for Visual Insight here, it said that a tiller was a short, squat man with a large head, deep set eyes, a flat nose and a thin beard.

Rachel 15:37
I post a

Emily 15:38
picture Yeah, I’m gonna find one for sure. And something else I read said that he was five, six and 160 pounds or something like that. Like he was not a big Arnold Schwarzenegger type.

Rachel 15:51

Emily 15:52
that’s a small, like people were smaller back then. Sure, height wise and stuff, but he’s towering over everybody else who’s like four foot eight.

Exactly. So in 434, the uncles oktar and rouga died. I’ve only read that they died. It seems suspicious that they both died the same time personally, but maybe it was staggered, who knows. And so believe that and Attila inherited joint control over the Hun and Empire when they died. And so just for FYI, the Hun Empire when they inherited it basically consisted of ruling over the Huns, which were a nomadic tribe from somewhere between the eastern edge of the Altai Mountains and the Caspian Sea, which would be roughly like modern day Kazakhstan, interestingly enough, and they are cited at this time as being a threat to Rome, purely because to the Roman Empire, excuse me, purely because they’re barbarians and they’ve waged successful pillages against Romans even before Attila came into power. In fact, one source said that they were such expert horsemen and had trained their horses so well for battle that their steeds their horses would fight for them in battle, like biting people and kicking and stuff like they were part of the army. Which I mean, that is bad estimate and scary horse.

Rachel 17:35
Horses are scary. Anyway, I get asked anything that

Emily 17:39
they walk me inside a barn sometimes What are you writing that?

Rachel 17:42
Only if they’re blind? No, they if they can sense fear, they get angry with you. And I’m scared already. They’re bigger than me. I’m not here for it. Not a horse girl. Yeah, you’d get trampled for sure. 100%

Emily 17:59
your hair’s not nearly long enough to be a horse girl. I’m working on that. Not for being a horse girl. I just see those little like young girls. Who are they all their hair that goes to their butts. It’s like she loves horses. Do you just know? Yeah,

Rachel 18:17
I’ve The last time I wrote a horse. I was. Actually let’s save it for were the world a little teaser for our patrons. I’ll save my personal story for that. Because I have a feeling we’ve got a lot more horrible to get into.

Emily 18:29
Ooh, yeah. Okay. So when bleeder and until he came to power, they actually worked on negotiating a treaty, which was the Treaty of Marcus with the Eastern Roman Empire. And the Treaty of Marcus essentially said, Romans are going to return all the Hon refugees that had fled into Roman territories. They would not enter into any pacts or treaties with enemies of the Huns. They would establish Fair Trading rights. And of course, they would make an annual payment of 700 pounds of gold directly to Attila unbelieva show, which for reference, 700 pounds of gold today is worth about $15 million. Oh, so it was not. It was a hefty little fee there. And then for the Huns part, their part of the treaty was that they’re like, okay, we won’t attack you. And we won’t enter into any pacts or treaties with your enemies. And we’re going to defend the Danube frontier and the provinces of the Roman Empire. So once this treaty was in place, the Romans were basically like, sweet, the Huns are going to manage the Danube region, we can send all our troops to Sicily to fight against these people called the vandals that were threatening other provinces of Rome, so they are like, wipe their hands up. Danya sweet, we’re good. We don’t need to worry about the Huns. All good. Okay, so Meanwhile, the Huns that did start to fulfill their duties and they turn their attention east to this war against the sassanid Empire, which was a major power of Iranians that were a rival of the Roman Empire. And so they were, you know, doing their duty, take it on one of their enemies for them. But they actually were repelled when they were like, headed towards the sassanids. And driven back towards the Hungarian plains, which was where their home base was. Here’s the thing. Attila does not like to lose. So being driven back, and like, basically not losing, but you know, like being shut down. He didn’t care for this. This pissed him off. He wanted a win now. And he’s a greedy son of a bitch. So he wants more gold. His 15 million was not nearly enough. Even though that 15 million that 700 pounds of gold literally was just for Attila and bleda. It was not meant to like subsidize the country. It was just personal fee, you know?

Rachel 21:11
Yeah. I mean, ticket all of their golden crested whatever, who cares? Exactly. They need 15 million, do what you want, do what you want.

Emily 21:20
And you know, since he was let’s just call a spade a spade. He was a sociopath. And so a treaty was about as good as a restraining order is these days like it’s a piece of paper, right? Like they were like, sure we won’t attack you.

Rachel 21:36
Unless it’s for more money. They have that tiny tiny print. Oh, you didn’t whip out your fancy monocle. Maybe you showed up Rome.

Emily 21:46
Rome, you idiots. Yeah, yes. And so they knew that that Roman troops were deployed to Sicily. And they’re like that, that it Oh, easy opportunity for plundering. And so they did claim that the Romans had violated their Treaty because they hadn’t, I guess sent back all of the refugees that they had in their territory. And Attila claimed that there was this Roman Bishop that made a secret trip into hun territory and desecrated some 100 graves and stole some valuable goods. And they wanted that Bishop turned over to them for some horrific torture.

Rachel 22:28
You know, I would love to defend bishops or anyone in the room would have been probably Roman Catholic, I’m guessing. Yeah. I mean, just thinking about the history of Pope’s isn’t it’s not great in terms of like, ethics and moral character. So right. Wrong, it totally could have happened could

Emily 22:57
have happened. Yeah. So the Roman emperor of the time Theodosius the second sent his general Flavius asfar to try to negotiate with Attila but it was really no you. Attila showed as part some like recently disturbed graves like see your Bishop did this.

Rachel 23:20
Sorry. Did you just say, Did you say as far? No. But yes,

Emily 23:26
let’s call him that from now.

Unknown Speaker 23:29
asked her, asked her ask. Her name’s asked her. That doesn’t make any sense. If you were a 12 year old boy please could you like it? Did you say ask?

Unknown Speaker 23:52

Emily 23:54
So he takes s par to some disturbed graves and is like see your Bishop did this even though there’s like no way to tell whose graves they were who destroyed then what could have been taken from them? Like Attila could have fucking knocked a tomb over and they’d be like, hey, did it

Rachel 24:14
right in front of him. Right? pushes it over there. He throws something he did that. He did that. You didn’t see him?

Emily 24:24
Huh? Well, since there was really no proof of a crime, ask fart. asfar refuse to turn the bishop over to the Huns and claim that he had no knowledge of any hon refugees hiding on Roman soil. But the Huns insisted and since Asmar could not comply, the negotiation negotiations reached a stalemate. So as Parr returned to Constantinople, which was the capital of the Roman Empire at the Time, and he reported back to Theodosius, that, you know, well, we didn’t come to an agreement, but I don’t think there’s any threat. Like I don’t think there’s imminent threat of 100 invasion mistakes.

Rachel 25:15
They’re probably not going to attack us. You know,

Emily 25:19
I have heard that a teller is very mild mannered and never rageous war again, some of you heard Ron. So yeah, he was wrong. Attila began to mobilize for war. And, you know, without much thought that to living up to their under the treaty, they drove their armies through the borders and attack the cities of the province of Illy Rika Illa. Russia, which was part of the Roman Empire, and a super profitable Roman Trade Center. So hit him where it hurts right where the money’s at. And it’s sad that the attack was especially successful because one, as far was like, they aren’t gonna attack but two, good old Theodosius was also super confident that the hunts are going to keep the treaty to the point where he had counselors telling him like you need to be prepared. The Huns are not going to keep this treaty for long. And he was like, pish posh, like, no, I will listen, I won’t listen to you. So yeah.

Rachel 26:36
I mean, look, these guys are basically contractors, they’re getting paid, whether you listen to them or not, I mean, you’re gonna die. But like, Look, it’s not their fault. They counts, right? They did what you’re paying for. Exactly.

Emily 26:49
So just as like a note about Theodosius, a lot of the notes about him are like the he was very gentle, and scholarly, and like, easily dominated and kind of just allowed the whole government of the Roman Empire to be run by a succession of relatives and ministers. So even when those relatives had ministers were like, um, maybe just thinking maybe they might be coming. Basically, he was super trustworthy and just was like now and then super backfired on him. Because Attila did not stop with attacking elec Korea. He kept riding to new cities and destroying them. And at this point, a dick swinging match commences and gentle Theodosius the second tries to get put on his big boy pants and declare the treaty is officially broken. And then

Rachel 27:49
it’s like, now you wait until you can’t fire me, I quit.

Emily 27:57
And so then he panics and some kind of message, you know, smoke signal or an owl or whatever to recall his armies from the provinces that they were in to come back and help me how we have a new top priority. Get your asses back here. fuckers. Exactly. And then Attila and bleda are like hell, no, you have not even seen half of our fury. And they responded with a full scale invasion. So apparently they were only like half scale invading before. And now they’re like sacking and destroying the Roman cities. All the way to within 20 miles of Constantinople. So they were like anything. They’re like, making this like 20 mile circumference around the city and just wiping cities out. They literally completely wiped whole cities out like there was the city called nice s ne ISIS and AI s su s off the map, like not a city anymore. killed every single person that live there. boom, done. Wow. So Theodosius did not give many shits about the cities outside of Constantinople. But as they got closer and closer, he’s like buck, buck, buck. Fuck, I do not want them to get into my city where I am vulnerable. And so he’s like, okay, I’ll make another treaty with you guys. I’ll pay you again.

Rachel 29:32
Look, I’m really sorry for quitting like that before. I didn’t mean to make a scene. But I’m ready to come back to work now. This job. I really my bad,

Emily 29:43
my bad. Exactly. And so he did make terms with the Tila, and this time agreed to pay him a staggering sum of 2100 pounds of gold per year. So that’s $47 million and today, money Every year and and a one time lump sum of 6000 pounds of gold for a rears for you know them having stopped paying them when they when the Huns initially broke the treaty before so the Huns break the treaty. And so then the Romans stopped paying them and then now the hands are like you didn’t pay us even after we broke the treaty. They get fucking back pay. They’re getting paid for this. And yes, 6000 pounds of gold today would be $135 million. I God so

Rachel 30:41
I’m about to have a gold toilet bowl and fucking birthday. Like I don’t know what they were doing back in now hungry, but it sounds like what are you going to do with that much gold?

Emily 30:52
Build the whole castle out of it? I don’t know. But yeah, it seems like Attila completely played Theodosius because like I said, like, somehow Attila attacked Theodosius, and somehow he was the one walking away with $200 million. So good on you. Attila I guess like

Rachel 31:09
what I’m just thinking like, don’t engage in a dick swinging contest with somebody who is five foot six.

Emily 31:20
Do not miss judge their tick size. I mean, you know, in those days, Theodosius was probably forced for nine you don’t know. Oh my god. Oh, so anywho the second peace treaty was sorted out in 443 443. I don’t know how to say dates from back then. It’s so awkward that there’s only three numbers.

Rachel 31:44
I know. I was thinking the same thing. Like as you were talking. I’m just like, okay, we’re now in 2021. And we’re talking about shit that happened when there were

Emily 31:54
three digits right. 1500 years ago. Crazy. Crazy. And then some.

Rachel 32:00
Yeah, cuz I was thinking about Okay, so this was a few 100 years after Caesar who died when there were only two digits. Right. Wow. And he was bc as well. But then Oh, yeah. Octavian? Yeah. Augustus ended up you know, shifting over into the ad times. Yeah. So because he was the first Roman Empire, as we talked about a couple of weeks back when we did Julius Caesar, but it’s just crazy to think about, oh, it was a few 100 years which seems close in my mind. But then I think about a few 100 years for us is the 18 hundred’s

Emily 32:33
will God not see a different timeframe? like totally different lifestyle? Everything? Yeah.

Rachel 32:39
100%. So yeah, that’s just kind of where my mind is.

Emily 32:43
In case you wonder what’s Rachel’s mind doing?

Rachel 32:46
What we’re thinking about while we What? She hasn’t said anything for a while? Why isn’t she being clever?

Emily 32:52
She’s over there, just trying to do math.

Rachel 32:55
You’re just like, fathoming my insignificance and the history of the universe. Right. Oh my gosh, we are nothing. Okay.

Emily 33:06
So, once the second peace treaty, slush, massive payment was sorted out the Huns returned to the great Hungarian plane. And Roman sources are kind of hazy about what happened over the next several years. But one important thing did happen, and 445 and that is that at some point in 445, Attila decided to challenge plida for sole power over the Empire Mo Money Mo Problems. A Roman writer who provided what was considered one of the more reliable Roman accounts of the Huns claimed that bleeder king of the Huns was assassinated as a result of the plots of his brother Attila. So there are some accounts that say that he may be tried to kill Attila first and until one opt in, but either way, long story short, Attila ends up as the sole Sovereign of the hunnic Empire, and now is the most powerful military leader in Europe. Of course, this peace that they had with the Romans did not last only lasted for four years because in 447, Attila was bored with all of his gold, I guess, and launched his greatest war yet on the Eastern Roman Empire. So he’s gonna go whole hog on this one. Psi aidid, a barbecue place this weekend called Porky butts. Now, you didn’t know I’m in Nebraska.

Rachel 34:39
Did you have pork belly at Porky bats? Because I think that’s what I would get.

Emily 34:43
No, I had Turkey and it was incredible. It was the moistest turkey I’ve ever had

Rachel 34:51
their like spoiler alert. It was pork jerky. Spoiler alert. There’s

Unknown Speaker 34:57
only pork here. That coleslaw. It’s pork. Back to the kitchen. This bitch

Rachel 35:03
just ordered Turkey, give report over the desk, give her support

Unknown Speaker 35:08
just stay away.

Unknown Speaker 35:09
It’s fine.

Emily 35:09
Oh my god. Yes. Okay, so real quick, I’m going to do some quick insights on how these battles kind of locked because we’ve done a lot of talking about like hate overtook the city and this city and like 100 different cities, but like, what does that look like? So these were not like trot into the city on your horse and be like, Hey, everyone, gather your things and leave it was like a sea change. So they had battering rams and siege towers and they would mine under to breach city walls. Like I’m more picturing people like climbing up the walls, you know, like,

Rachel 35:55
like zombie apocalypse.

Emily 35:57
Yeah, like another game of thrones kind of a situation like

Rachel 36:01
the White Walkers. Yeah, yeah. No, dude, I was picturing like, lighting villages on fire. Like, if it’s like women, children, whatever. They’re just like, burn it to the ground.

Emily 36:10
Yeah, but except Unfortunately, they didn’t even just like light a fire and like, let it burn. They’re doing like hand to hand combat and murdering

Unknown Speaker 36:19
civilians. Yeah, just everybody. And you hear that?

Emily 36:25
My neighbors having like a big party. There’s like 15 cars lining the streets. And one of their trucks is like one of those ones with the big mufflers with like, Huh,

Rachel 36:32
that’s a guy who’s just asking you to hit in the face. Now I can’t hear it. But I’ve my my AC is on so I can like kind of hear a little faint buzzing so I apologize if you can hear that.

Emily 36:43
I can’t. Okay, good. Why are you just sitting outside with your truck on sir.

Rachel 36:48
Stop good for drive away. I mean, Chad.

Emily 36:52
Chad’s leaving?

Rachel 36:54
Oh, I just heard him leave. Wow,

Emily 36:57
congrats on Your Tiny dick. Okay.

Okay, so back to the hand to hand murdering, so they would use like straight bladed double edged swords most frequently. But they also would use like curved swords bow and arrow axes. meses which are a stick with like a big head on it.

Rachel 37:24
Yeah, with the spikes. Chad. Fuck you. We take

Emily 37:32
like six Chad’s over there. Like it’s just a bunch of trucks parked.

Rachel 37:36
It’s a fuckin time. It’s a micro debt parade. Dude, stop it. It’s perfect. That was pretty much too much Coco melon.

Emily 37:57
Anyways, back to the so amaze picture like a big stick with a big head on it that has like spikes coming out of it right? They would beat them.

Rachel 38:08
They like how Buster Bluth describes. Lucille number two. She’s like a fuzzy thing was fat the Swiss.

Emily 38:19
So they would use daggers they would use Lance’s javelins, and like, improvise things like they’d find in a net and a pick axe and use that for someone and kill them.

Rachel 38:31
So sound effects though, probably sounded like it sounded wet and bloody. That’s what I heard.

Emily 38:38
Yeah, perfect job. Like an aggressive wet Willy. Okay. Here is a little insight from a Roman historians perspective of the Huns. And this is all quo. And though they do just bear the likeness of men of a very ugly pattern, they are so little advanced in civilization that they make no use of fire, nor any kind of relish in the preparation of their food, but feed upon the roots which they find in the fields, and the half raw flesh of any sort of animal. When attacked, they will sometimes engage in regular battle. Then going into the fight in order of columns, they fill the air with varied and discordant cries. More often, however, they fight in no regular order of battle, but by being extremely swift and sudden in their movements. they disperse and then rapidly come together again in a loose array, spreading havoc over vast plains, and flying over the rampart. They pillage the camp of their enemy almost before he has become aware of their approach. When in close combat with swords, they fight without regard for their own safety, and while their enemy is intense, Upon parrying the thrust of the swords, they throw a net over him. And so entangle his limbs that he loses all power of walking or riding.

Rachel 40:10
It’s a game of thrones shit is what it is.

Emily 40:13
It really is like it really feels like they just are like, those people who are high on bath salts and like just attack you in like, a year. But like, all like there’s like 200,000

Rachel 40:26
that’s what they did. You didn’t know they just had a bunch of fucking bats. They just put them into the air and like it was fuckin anthrax, but it was just that so

Unknown Speaker 40:40
yes, bath salts and then there’s the one guy who’s like in a tub and he’s like, wait, I got the wrong idea that this is taking a bath about

Unknown Speaker 40:50
whoops, he’s just am

Unknown Speaker 40:53
like it moved on where they just baited together and it’s like that, but he’s just alone in a field of angry warriors in a clawfoot tub with a rubber ducky.

Emily 41:06
I love that has coffee. I could not get that Milan song out of my head while I wrote this one. Yeah. To defeat the Han.

Rachel 41:17
Yes, it is a really great song.

Emily 41:19
Okay, back to it. So Attila decimated Roman armies river of Utah’s though he did suffer some losses himself. But he continued on and he decimated chair Sonus in the gala Pauly peninsula. Then they went on to sack more than 70 cities in the Balkans, penetrated deep into Greece. But then they were finally stopped at a place called thermo pie lay and negotiated one final peace treaty with the Romans and charge them more money. I’m sure though this time I guess Theodosius was like don’t tell anyone how much I’m paying? Because I didn’t see how much it was.

Rachel 42:09
I can’t believe that Theodosius is still like, yep, another treaty sounds great. I totally trust you guys. Meanwhile, a tiller is just standing there with his fingers crossed behind his back. his buddy, I really needed more money now that I don’t have to share it with my brother dead weight over there. Pun intended.

Emily 42:30
So essentially, at this point, the hunnic Empire was at the height of its power. They seemed unbeatable. And Attila was ruling not over not only Hungary and the hunnic Empire, but also get the Germania and Scandinavia. So he’s like conquering and taking on full countries and empires at this game. So a funny interesting twist in the spring of 450. On Noria, who was a woman who was the sister of the emperor of the west of Western Rome, valentijn Valentin, the third. So I guess Theodosius was the emperor of Eastern yet Rome. And Valencian was the emperor of Western Rome, which I I was confused by but like Rome is not it’s way bigger than

Rachel 43:29
Italy now. Yeah, this is the Roman Empire and not

Emily 43:35
exactly. So this woman on orea sends a Tila a ring, and asks him to help get her out of an impending marriage to a Roman aristocrat that her brother was trying to force her to marry. Now, Attila took on orias ring in the mail as a proposal, which I guess I probably might, too, I don’t know. Sure. And he, like, claimed her as his newest bride. And then he was like, I just picked him. He’s like flipping the paper over a few times. And like, Well, nothing on here says anything about a dowry, so I should take half of the Western Empire. This shall be your dowry. Dibs, Dibs. And apparently on Oreo then is like That’s not what I meant. I wasn’t proposing to you like I just wanted your help. I just want you to kill this. Yeah, and her brother was so mad at her that apparently he was like, you’re gonna have to go marry him. But then I guess maybe she was like mom

Unknown Speaker 44:41

Emily 44:42
he like relented and was like, Okay, I guess you can marry the boring Roman aristocrat after all, which I’m like, isn’t that what he wanted in the first place? Exactly. Unfortunately, Attila obviously He is not the type to give up easily. And he went on to wage his next two military campaigns in her name. He’s like my wife never met her before. Fair. So now honoria is not his only wife because they practice polygamy. And so he had at least three other wives at this point. But possibly many more. He was the king after all, but so sure, the wives that are known are his main wife. Her name was cracka. And she was Queen of the Huns. She was the first you know, and so she was mother to his three sons, alack Dang, his neck and our neck. And apparently, she was super sophisticated and charming. And she like, oversaw the servants and things like that. So she was the lady of the house. He also had an alliance wife, and it was the daughter of a man named es cam. But I could not find for the life of me who the fuck asked cam was or like, what made it a good Alliance, but that it all just says the daughter of SKM I’m like, I don’t know her name. Don’t know who he is. Okay, cool.

Rachel 46:13

Emily 46:15
I will say, I did find a couple of accounts that debated if this woman was actually the daughter of a chieftain, or if it was a tell his daughter who he married, which sounds disgusting and nasty. So we’re going to hope it was the Alliance situation, because I did read that that even even back then that was not okay. Like, it would have been frowned upon for that to have happen. Sure. And then his third wife at this time was the bleeders widow, because, of course, he killed his brother and then said, I’ll take care of you and took her on as his. Apparently he was nice to her though, and made her like governess of some city and she like kind of ran one of these little cities. So who knows? Maybe she hates later? Well,

Rachel 47:04
yeah, and you want to figure if you’re married to somebody like Attila, who spends most of his time out at war mongering and doing whatever. He’s not really around

Emily 47:12
that much. You just get to be taken care of. Basically,

Rachel 47:16
you get all of his money and you don’t really have to do anything super wifey. Yeah, exactly. You could probably have a lover if you were of that high of status. Yeah. I mean, he’d kill him if he found out but like he would have been fine. No one hurt you. You’re fine. I mean, he might kill you too. I

Emily 47:30
don’t know. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Let’s jump back to a TELUS conquests. So now it’s 451 went about 200,000 of his forces invaded Gaul, modern de France. And as they move through the countryside, they were slaughtering and like leaving devastation in their wake. And the Romans formed an alliance with King theodoric, the first of the Visigoths. And this combined Roman Gothic army confronted Attila in the decisive battle of Cata. Lani Yon plains, I don’t know how to say it. And finally, finally defeated Attila in one of the bloodiest conflicts in history. So theodoric so the king of the gods Oh, visit god. I’m like, God, I just was picturing God kids when I was like, Yeah, I know. It’s something

Rachel 48:30
just like Angry kids and black lips, listening to

Emily 48:33
metal king of the gods. Something emo band. Okay, so he was king of the visit gods and he was killed during the battle. And eventually, Attila actually withdrew his forces and retired from Gaul. And this is widely considered one of his only on field battle losses at all. Of course, he’s not one to be easily discouraged. And so the following year, he invaded Italy to claim the bride who had promised him her hand in marriage and was like, Well, fuck

Unknown Speaker 49:06

Unknown Speaker 49:06
I married somebody else.

Rachel 49:08
Excuse me. I’ve been wearing this ring all around my neck like a necklace. You gave me this promise ring. I know. We don’t speak the same language. So I misinterpreted your fucking letter. Give me your hand.

Emily 49:20
Give me half of Western Europe. Oh, oh. And so here just as in Gaul, he had spread like, tons of destruction completely took out the city of achillea which so much so that it was never going to rise again. And no one even knew where it was like where it has stood like wiped. It’s so far off the map that they didn’t even know where it was. They’re like, I think it used to be right here. Check your map against crazy crazy. So for reasons that no one really knows. For some reason the Huns stopped during this conquest Not because they were losing, they just stopped at a place called the PO River. So apparently there had been a famine plaguing Italy at this time. And so it’s possible that Attila, like ran off supplies, or that maybe the plague had gotten into his army and his men started to get sick. And so he had to abandon his plans. But there is some suggestion also that his men, were starting to caution him against continuing on to try to get to Rome. And it’s also possible that there was a peace treaty again, you know, I’m sure. Yeah. One interesting fact is that during this time, it is said that Emperor valentinian, sent Pope Leo the first to have a little sit down with Attila and tell him that big man upstairs was not happy with him. And like, y’all need to stop killing people because God’s not happy. And it was pretty soon after that meeting with the pope that Attila, like turn back and retreated to hungry. So he found Jesus, he found Jesus, y’all. So he apparently gave up on trying to get honoria to come back with him. And in 453, he decided to take on another way named ildiko. And so they got married. And just as a teller was preparing another attack on the Eastern Roman Empire, and its new Emperor marcian. They had this wedding, but during the wedding at his palace, Attila feasted and drank late into the night, and the next morning, the king failed to appear to like leave for his big attack. And so his guards broke down the door of the bridal chamber and found a tiller dead with a weeping hysterical, hysterical Adecco at his bedside. Interestingly, no wound could be found. And it appeared that he had suffered a bad nosebleed while lying in a stupor and choked to death on his own blood. suspicious,

Rachel 52:20
very suspicious. Yes, Some

Emily 52:22
suggest that a delko definitely played a part in his death. Yeah, maybe fell victim to some sort of conspiracy engineered by marcian. Like, maybe marcian was like, okay, Theodosius was a fucking idiot. I’m gonna hire this hot girl to go and marry him and then poison him. Cuz ladies love to poison and kill him. And then I don’t have to pay him. Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of gold.

Rachel 52:53
Yeah, and also, that’s a very he must have gotten shipped tank to an hundreds of times. Yeah, like he had the money to just be feasting all the time. Granted. Look, if you got a big battle the next day, you probably gonna be hung over for that shit. Take it easy. sit this one out.

Emily 53:14
Because you know you’re gonna have sex. You don’t want to overeat at dinner.

Rachel 53:18
That’s cheese not too much.

Unknown Speaker 53:20
I don’t get to portray What’s wrong with you. Like soup. So like, maybe Sue depends if we’re having sex with Michael Scott.

Emily 53:33
So Some even say it was just a freak accident and a cautionary tale about the dangers of binge drinking. Nope. So tell us army super grieved their leader. They smear their faces with blood and rode their horses in circles around the tent, holding his body. And then his body was encased in three different coffins which I’m like, so they’d cut him up or like what happened? Was

Rachel 54:01
it just like, are we thinking of a nesting doll situation? Often and then the next one and then actually

Emily 54:08
it might be because it was one was iron. One was silver and what was gold so I could see it like the gold one being on the inside and then silver and then iron so you’re smart. Because I was like, did they chop him up? Oh my god. And then they buried him in a tomb filled with the weapons of his defeated enemies and jewels and other treasures. And as legend has it, a river was diverted so that he could be buried in the river bed and then the waters were released to flow over the grave. Wow. The reason why this legend exists is because nobody knows where he’s buried, like the location of the burial site is believed to be somewhere in hungry but it’s still unknown to this day. Hmm. And it’s even said that this Events who were in charge of burying him were subsequently killed to prevent anyone from knowing where his final resting place was.

Rachel 55:08
Were they nervous about somebody desecrating or stealing his body? Or what? Oh,

Emily 55:13
no, I guess. So they’re like, we can never let him be conquered. He hates to be conquered

Rachel 55:20
one job and to make sure it’s done properly, we shall kill you.

Emily 55:25
Some people actually think that the people knew they were going to be killed and like took it on as like an honor to be able to sacrifice themselves for their mighty king. So following his funeral, his empire was divided among his sons. So remember, he had three sons. And they basically fought with each other for the greatest share, and squandered all their resources and allowed the kingdom to fall apart. And by 469 16 years later, the entire hunnic Empire, gone. No more hunting Empire, of course, until his memory does live on as one of the greatest military leaders of the time. And although there’s no information that I could find, as to exactly how many men and women and children died at his hand, or under his leadership, 1500 years later, he still has the reputation for striking terror and all of his enemies. And his name, you know, is still well known, still remains synonymous with like a aggressive Calvary, and like warrior status or whatever.

Unknown Speaker 56:37
Yeah, and

Emily 56:39
so that is the abbreviated somewhat story of Attila the Hun. And we’ll talk about another ancient ruler with a horrible history. Ganga scon.

Rachel 56:50
I’m so excited to hear that story, too. I’ll pick something lighter. Maybe next week, too. But, no, that’s so interesting. And also, there’s a parable in there. You know what I mean? About Yeah, okay, you can go and you can conquer, but maybe make sure that you’re taking care of what’s in front of you. The grass is greener, where you water it. No, so that your fucking fortune and all of these, like, millions and millions of dollars don’t get squandered by your shit eating kids.

Emily 57:19
Right? You can’t spend it once you’re gone. So Nope. Can’t take it with you think about your legacy in a different way.

Rachel 57:27
All right. Beautiful, beautiful job. Thank you. I’m also going international backed up to Scandinavia to Stockholm, Sweden,

Emily 57:37
previously conquered by Attila.

Rachel 57:41
T. I’ve never been to Sweden before. I don’t think you’ll be there. No. Okay. So after doing some research, it’s definitely on my list. We haven’t talked about it on the podcast much. But we will be talking about it. And this week’s Patreon episode of where in the world has horrible history. But when I went to visit Emily, in Omaha a couple of weeks ago, we went to the Durham Museum, which is a history museum that used to be a train station. So fucking cool. The main level is still in a vintage train station. An extra fenter us because they had a James Cameron exhibit. So

Emily 58:23
we got to see actual props from the movie Titanic. Including something that Leonardo fucking DiCaprio wore on his body. I was like, body it’s like I’m basically touching him through. This is a very thick class,

Rachel 58:37
in class. But if you want to hear more about that trip stuff, we ate fun stuff we did $5 and up patreon.com slash horrible history. But I bring up this trap. Because Stockholm has a museum called the Vasa Museum, which boasts the vassa battleship which sunk way before the Titanic back in 1628. Six to 28 and there was a salvage mission in 1961. So couldn’t go see the ship at the museum. And it is 95% original fucking parts.

Emily 59:17
Whoa, that cool. That’s like fascinating to me, because I just think that the ocean would just eat everything away.

Rachel 59:24
Yeah, I wonder how it’s preserved. So it

Emily 59:26
was underwater for 300 years. And yes, and 5% original.

Rachel 59:31
That’s why I’m like, I gotta see it. I gotta see.

Emily 59:33
There’s no way it was made out of iron. Like that was a wooden ship.

Unknown Speaker 59:37
Come on. Yes.

Rachel 59:38
Yeah, the 1600s for sure. Maybe I should do that story at some point. But oh, I thought that’s what you’re doing for sure. I was like, No, I would also want to check out stockholms royal palace where the king lives, but not the queen. Once she’s got her own residence on Queen’s Island. I love that, which is a 45 minute Right away, she’s like, Don’t catch me. Don’t look at me. But the royal palace has over 600 rooms, and it’s got museums within the palace that we can check out to be really fun. For the last thing, I would definitely need to be feeling adventurous because I’m a little scared of heights. But I would probably want to go to the top of the Erickson globe. It’s a landmark, obviously spiritual, it’s a globe that sits about 435 feet above sea level, and you can get a view of the entire city of sakam.

Emily 1:00:35
My gosh, we both had one of those. I

Rachel 1:00:37
know I know. I thought that when you were talking about it, too. And I wonder if from the top of the Ericsson globe, you would be able to see a savages, Creed’s bank, and that’s normal stored, which is a bank Thank you. I tried, which is a bank located right in the middle of the city. If so, you would be seeing the place in which the event that led to the identification of a psychological phenomena place you guessed it. We are going to be talking about the first known case of Stockholm Syndrome. I am so excited to do the story. It’s been high on my list for a hot um,

Emily 1:01:21
this is a powerhouse episode I

Rachel 1:01:23
love It’s so good. I have covered Stockholm Syndrome briefly back when I talked about Patty Hearst way back it was Episode Five affordable history. For a quick rehab. Stockholm Syndrome is the phenomenon in which hostages stop feeling fear toward the captors and start to feel positive feelings for them. So think about Bella and beauty and peace. Let’s head back to August 1973. Yon Eric Olson had been in prison for grand larceny he’d been granted furlough I’m not sure what for but he didn’t you know it for Louis. Should I explain that? further was like, Yeah, I only know it from Orange is the New Black but it’s basically you can leave for some sort of event like a funeral of somebody or close to you get to go on a little field trip from prison for a specific purpose. And then you’re supposed to come back. I believe you’re supposed to be guarded. But this guy was just out doing whatever. And he didn’t come back to prison when he was supposed to. He just looked around. He’s like, nobody here make it a run. So instead, on the morning of August 23 1973, john walked in to sit. I say this sub ridges Creek bank, a metronome or stork, wearing toy glasses, a brown wig, some blush, and carrying a machine gun under a folded jacket in his arms. He raised the gun to the ceiling, fired off around and yelled in his best American accent. The party has Strasberg on

Emily 1:03:08
my all time favorite cool show in my head.

Rachel 1:03:14
Obviously worried about the robbery, one of the employees of the bank triggered a silent alarm. two police officers came into the bank and attempted to subdue Yon Yun shot one of the officers injuring his hand but not killing him. He then forced the second officer into a chair and asked him to sing a song. The officer oblige singing lonesome cowboy. Now. Have you heard the song loads of gamma or? I don’t think either and I was curious, so you bet your ass I did a little googling. It isn’t Oh, this song. Oh, there’s also a toy story next, but I’m assuming it was the eldest son. A few of the lyrics are. I am just a lonesome cowboy and I’m traveling all alone. If you don’t call me baby, then I’m never coming home.

Emily 1:04:05

Rachel 1:04:07
It seems a little ominous, but spoilers. No officers died. Yeah. I am not 100% sure about the timeline here. But I like to picture Yon being serenaded while assuring for beta employees back into the vault. He’s taking hostages the police officer is just serenading him with a sweet lonely cowboy song something like that, you know sweet sweet Elvis song. So Yon has some hostages sign for him to do a little negotiating with the police. First, he asked the first buddy Clark olafson who is currently in prison for armed robbery and accessory to murder of a police officer to be brought to the bank. So he’s like, I need my friend. I’m lonely. I’m lonely. I need Clark. Secondly, he asked for 3 million Swedish kronor, which is about $376,000 in 1973 money, almost $2.3 million in today’s money.

Emily 1:05:12
Who’s online say, which is the equivalent of 200 pounds of golf in 443?

Rachel 1:05:19
yet yes. Finally, he asked for two guns to bullet profess two helmets and one very fast car.

Emily 1:05:28
Gotta keep his boys safe to like, yeah, yeah,

Rachel 1:05:33
he’s looking out for his brow. It’s kind of adorable if his bro wasn’t. No, no, murderer. Yeah, pretty vicious one at that, we’ll get into it. So, the Swedish government is all cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Sounds good. So they release Clark from jail, thinking that he’ll be their criminal liaison, and they’ll be able to build some rapport with Yon. And they send Clark to the bank with the money, all the weapons and the defensive gear and a blue Ford Mustang with a full tank of gas. All they asked for is that Yon and Clark leave the hostages behind on arms as they leave with the money or sorry, not on ARM unharmed, as they left the money. So like don’t hurt the bank employees just like take your shit and go. I feel

Emily 1:06:19
like like the Swedes have a good reputation for being kind and like gentle, like, non confrontational people. Like aren’t they one of the countries where it’s like, no one walks through the door, you know, like, they’re all just happy and they have a high happiness rating. So that might be Switzerland.

Rachel 1:06:37
Yes, Switzerland is the peace company. But Scandinavia in general, people report higher levels of happiness. So socialism, in my opinion,

Emily 1:06:44
I think so too. But yeah, so it’s funny that they’re just like, yep, okay, sir. I will get that for you right away.

Rachel 1:06:51
Can I get you anything else?

Emily 1:06:52
hamburger bottle, lighter diet, Dr. Pepper, anything? shy? That

Rachel 1:06:56
sounds pretty good, right? I thought the police negotiators, they sounded pretty reasonable. But the criminals did not like the government’s plan. They figured that without the hostages, they would be shot on their way out of the bank. And Yon in particular is pissed. He calls the Prime Minister directly. I don’t know how he got the number assuming the government gave it to him. Of course they did. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you did the Prime Minister’s direct line. Here you go. And threaten the life of one of the hostages. Kristen and mark. Of course, threatening a pretty young woman causes a media stir.

Emily 1:07:33
Was she blonde?

Rachel 1:07:34
She was I mean, everybody in Sweden is not even a fair question. But yes, she was. So news crews surrounded the bank, and every morbid curious and their mom showed up to watch. Many also tried to give news crews and police officers their own suggestions on how to get the hostages out. Yeah, most of the suggestions not awesome. One of them the suggestions was to have a religious concert by Salvation Army Band. I don’t know why, like, maybe they’ll be moved by some sort of him makes them cry and just release. Let my people go. I don’t know. But

Emily 1:08:13
I would have just looked at that civilian and been like, you fucking kidding me. out of here.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:18
Or the other one I found in my personal favorite, sending in a swarm of angry bees. True story. That was one of the suggestions. Where are we gonna get those, john? Well, not even that, but like, you know,

Rachel 1:08:32
cuz the bees will know. Now, these are the captors. And these are the captives. So only sting the bad guys. And stung and angry. They’ll come on out.

Emily 1:08:44
Bees like horses can smell. They can smell bad guy.

Rachel 1:08:51
They can smell bad guy. So they didn’t they didn’t have the bees. They didn’t have the bee strength. But a whole day passes. And then August 24. The Prime Minister receives a second phone call from the bank. He’s like, yeah, me again a yawn. But it’s not Yon. It’s from Christian and mark. To add to this head scratching call. Christian tells the Prime Minister that she’s disappointed with the way he treated john during yesterday’s phone call. And would he mind letting all six of them please go free? She said to him quote, I am not desperate. They haven’t done a thing to us. On the contrary, they have been very nice. But you know all laugh. What I am scared of is that the police will attack us and cause us to die. I love that she calls the Prime Minister by his first name.

Emily 1:09:43
Maybe like you know, Joe, listen up. Imagine addressing a president like that. Like what up Brock? How’s

Unknown Speaker 1:09:51
it go? He probably

Unknown Speaker 1:09:54
maybe he’s pretty cool.

Emily 1:09:56
typer seriously thought that you said Kristen and Mark And I was like, oh, there’s two, Kristen and

Rachel 1:10:03
Kristen. And Maria is her laughing. Yeah, yeah, there are four hostages. But Kristen is the only one on the phone. And I’ll get into who they are. Also on day two of being kept in the vault, so this is the second day and she’s already like, these guys are super nice. They’re just misunderstood. hold off. For real. Just let us all go. The police are the people we really need to watch out for day to day. It’s Well, yeah, there’s they’re being kept in the vault. The bank employees and the hostages, all of them are on a first name basis with Yon Clark, and the police commissioner is granted admission to inspect the hostages while being he notices that all of the hostages seem kind of short with him even hostile. They’re very ups

Emily 1:10:51
Get out of here.

Rachel 1:10:53
We’re having very chill and relax around the captors. As it turns out, instead of threatening the hostages Yana Clark, we’re taking care of them. So Kristen and Mark, Christian and Mark now complained about being cold and he gave her his jacket, and he comforted her after she had a nightmare. And he also gave her a bullet from his gun. You know like a keepsake.

Emily 1:11:23
It’s like a promise ring, but it’s a promise bullet.

Rachel 1:11:26
Yeah, it’s a promise bullet. I will shoot you later to shoot today.

Another one of the hostages. Berg Geeta loon, Blatt was allowed to phone her family when she couldn’t reach them. Yon and Clark encouraged her to keep calling them until she was able to reach them to be like, it’s okay. You’ll get a hold of them. You’ll be okay. Even you’re starting to turn.

Emily 1:11:56
Oh, that’s so sweet. I am I’m like I love that

Rachel 1:11:59
dream. Third hostage, Elizabeth old grant and complained about claustrophobia and was allowed to walk around outside the ball in the vault in the main bank. Granted, she was tied to a 30 foot leash,

Unknown Speaker 1:12:15
a little privacy but couldn’t get away. She just had to fart so she’s like going out there partying.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:23
Doo doo doo that claustrophobic.

Rachel 1:12:27
She would later tell the New Yorker quote, I remember thinking he was very kind to allow me to leave the vault. The fourth hostage is the only male one spend Sandstrom and he would later also speak of Yon and Clark’s kindness, which was a little stranger because you know, I had threatened to shoot spin and look like the head okay. He’s very nice. Essentially what he said he said, quote, how kind I thought he was for saying it was just my leg he would. My God. This interview for The New Yorker, I can’t say New Yorker. I don’t know why the New Yorker New Yorker interview for The New Yorker that I quoted with Sven and Elizabeth came out a year after this incident. So those warm fuzzy feelings for their captors did not go away as soon as they were eventually released. Spoilers.

Emily 1:13:32
Oh my god. They’re like we all get together for dinner sometimes.

Rachel 1:13:35
I mean, hang on to your hat. All right. So I don’t know why the noise yawn and Clark kept Christian for Geeta Elizabeth and Sven hostage for six days. Six days.

Emily 1:13:56
I have so many bad my hair would look after six days.

Rachel 1:14:00
Oh my god, I didn’t even think about that. My questions are like what did they eat? Where did they poop? Was there a poop corner? I know articles are covering these details, but I really don’t know. Poop corner.

There had to be a poop corner. Right? Like do you just clear out a vault and like see if there’s a bucket like so. You gotta have kind of a poop bucket.

Emily 1:14:17
No, I’m just picturing like, you know, they have all of the little individuals like boxes so they had one that they just pooped in. Can

Rachel 1:14:27
you imagine being a fancy lady you just walk in with your pearls? Oh, I heard there was something at the bank. I better go check. Oh my goodness. My pearls last similars it’s it’s faces it’s excrement. why she’s always Southern. This is fucking Sweden. It’s never been I was gonna say it’s the Swiss bank accounts that everybody says they have, but it’s not because that’s Switzerland and this is Sweden. I know we’re places our geography, geography. Alas, I wrote it August 28 1973. Police officers pumped the vault full of tear gas via a small hole in the ceiling. Nabis Come on. Nowadays it was tear gas. Yan Olson and Clark olafson surrendered pretty much immediately. Ironically, it was the four hostages who urged Yon and Clark to come out first. They thought that if the four of them came out first as police had directed them when their captors were alone in the vault police would shoot them. And they didn’t want anything bad to happen to young and as they were leaving the vault, the captors and hostages kissed, hugged and shook hands. The hands just yelled kissed right on the mouth. I mean, this is because each other Americans are like Wait, don’t fuckin touch me. But the hostages yelled at police not to hurt Yon and Clark. And in an extra dramatic move. Christian is being taken away on a stretcher. And remember, none of them are physically hurt. I mean, I don’t know if they were like dehydrated, but she probably shut her hands out. I happen. Yeah, listen, sometimes you shut your pants become a patron to hear more, but she reaches out to Clark olafson and she shouts Clark, I will see you again. Now I don’t know what the fuck happened between Kristen and Clark. But it was Yon who gave her the jacket. So like Clark swooped in there. At some point Clark is the one that was called from prison. Not the one who originally had started and

Emily 1:16:44
love triangle. Yeah,

Rachel 1:16:46
yeah. It’s it’s some drama, cologne. I will see you again. We’ll see you again. months after the event. The empathy that the four hostages felt for their captors was still confusing to police officers and mental health professionals. Elizabeth old grand would later tell her psychiatrist that she thought there was something wrong with her and she asked why don’t I hate them? Even she couldn’t understand. Thus, the term Stockholm Syndrome was coined and it didn’t go away. The hostages would visit their captors in prison. The psychiatrists who studied it compared it to PTSD, which was then being called shell shocked because the captain’s felt indebted to their captors for being alive instead of grateful to the police for saving them.

Emily 1:17:33
I love that they’re like buck the police. Like they’re still like, Don’t look

Rachel 1:17:39
at the police. Yeah. And of course, so Yon and Clark were already in prison. So they were brought back to prison, and they were both sentenced to longer terms for attempted robbery. So Young got 10 extra years, but Clark tried to appeal his extra time. Because he was like, Look, I was saying to you, I’ve been asked to be a part of this. Yun asked for me, I don’t know. But yeah, so Clark says, you know that he was just chilling in the ball trying to keep the hostages calm. And the decision to add time to his sentence was actually overturned. But he was sentenced to complete his original term, and he requested to study law, but that was denied. Oh, so one, totally stuck home to them. I’m like, oh, why? And look, Clark was hot. We’ll post pictures. Let’s just call a spade a spade. person now we’ll get on to it. I’m going to tell you what happened to them. Not a ton about what happened to the victims ironically, later in life, but I know quite a bit about what happened to john Clark. So Clark went on to become very close to Christian and mark. Apparently even their families became friends. But he isn’t always as sweet as he was with those sausages. Ah, Clark escaped from prison in March of 1975. So just a year or so later, escaped, escaped he just broke out of prison. And in April he robbed a bank in Copenhagen. He was on the run for about a year. involved in shootouts robbed another bank escaped from another prison in 1976. This is a very brief overview.

Emily 1:19:26
Sweden has terrible prisons apparently.

Rachel 1:19:29
Well, no, because Copenhagen, Denmark is Scandinavia. He was arrested this time in 1976. After a couple of weeks, he married a 19 year old that he met when he was on the run. So not great Clark. How old was he at

Emily 1:19:45
that time?

Rachel 1:19:46
I don’t know. 20s probably okay. He ended up getting a degree in journalism from Stockholm University while he was in prison, and he was released in 1983. And he’s battled for a while in Belgium with his wife, which is where she was from. Just kidding. No, not Christian. It was this 19 year old I don’t I didn’t write down her name. He was arrested again in 1984. This time for drugs. And then he was in and out of jail in the 90s and early 2000s and mid 2000s. Apparently, he was like the head of some drug kingpin organization. So he shifted his focus code. A lot of people did a lot of bad shit. But he was released from prison for good hopefully for him in 2008 teen Whoa, recent he is still alive and 74 years old. Oh, so Yon, on the other hand, who begun the party,

Emily 1:20:46
the body has just be good. God damn, it’s so good.

Rachel 1:20:51
So good. He didn’t engage in a relationship with any of the hostages. But he did get quite a few love letters in jail, and ended up getting engaged from prison and marrying one of his fan girls.

Emily 1:21:05
I will never fucking understand that. Like, what’s wrong in a person’s brain that they’re like, I want to write letters to this prisoner.

Rachel 1:21:15
I’m like, Really? I should do an episode or maybe for happy hour. Just women who write letters and marry people in jail. Like Who the fuck is marrying Ted Bundy? Who the fuck is fangirling over Richard Ramirez. Like I get it in that one picture. He looks kind of normal, but then he opens his mouth. Look at those fucking teeth. Look at them.

Emily 1:21:36
Yeah, just it’s mind boggling.

Rachel 1:21:41
In 1996, he moves to Thailand with his wife and son, or and he has a son. He probably committed other financial crimes and was potentially on the road. He did end up going back to Sweden and turning himself in in 2006. But the government and the cops are basically like, nobody cares about this. Nobody’s pursuing bribes. Like so to get out of here. What are you doing? Yeah, essentially. So apparently he’s very charming. He settled in Helsingborg. And he ran an automotive shirt shop. And he’s now 80 years old and retired. And he wrote an autobiography called Stockholm syndrome, which is kind of my Christian and Mark who was 23 when she was taken hostage, also went on to write a book about her experiences, which I think is interesting. I couldn’t find any follow up information about Berkey to Elizabeth and Sven. I hope that means that they are living a lovely retired life outside of the limelight. Yeah, and that’s the true story of the first case of Stockholm Syndrome and where it gets its name.

Emily 1:22:50
What a party Oh, man.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:52
It is just again I’m gonna need to see pictures of Clark because he sounds hot.

Rachel 1:22:59
We love a deck we really do. So that’s it that’s all we’ve got. Thank you guys for sticking it out with us. This is a fun kind of like heavy hitter, not heavy hitter. When I think heavy hitter I think serial killers

Emily 1:23:13
heavy hitters, but not heavy. Yeah.

Rachel 1:23:16
Famous. This was a famous people and events episode, which is fun moment. So you can see more of us on social media. We’re at horrible history pod on Instagram and tick tock. We have over 1000 followers on Tiktok now So hey, oh, thank you tick tock. We love you tick tock famous. Tick Tock. Yeah, and

Emily 1:23:40
please rate review, subscribe, share our podcast with your friends. It really does make a big difference to get those five star ratings or reviews. So please head that way and do that. And

Rachel 1:23:55
you can send us a Gmail.

Emily 1:23:56
Oh yeah. g Gmail.

Rachel 1:23:59
Yeah. Send us in your stories on Gmail horrible history. podcast@gmail.com and as we’ve plugged so many times in this episode, because we would love to make this a side hustle patreon.com slash horrible history.

Emily 1:24:12
Check it out where wear for $5 patrons we do where in the world is horrible history we do happy hour. For $10 and up patrons you get both of those things. They’re also on video. Terrible today is on video and we’re gonna start doing a new segment called horrible minute. And

Rachel 1:24:34
it’s gonna be what’s gonna horrible mess. It’s gonna be

Emily 1:24:38
it’s gonna be awesome. So, check it out. And thanks for listening. Hopefully,

Rachel 1:24:44
you’re horrified.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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