This week Rachel honors her upcoming / past trip to Nebraska by talking about Louise Vinciquerra, a lady criminal and bootlegger that was Omaha’s baddest bitch back in the day. Then, Emily goes to New York, New York and tells the infamous story of Typhoid Mary, aka Mary Mallon, aka patient zero for Typhoid in many, many households in NYC in the early 1900s. Hopefully, you’re horrified.
Content/Trigger Warnings: pedophilia, child sexual abuse
Hi, welcome to horrible history. I’m Emily Barlean.
And I’m Rachel Everett-Lozon. How’s it going? Exciting news.
Yeah, we have very exciting news. Actually, we’ve been having one hell of a week. We have three, three new patrons this week. And we want to give some shout outs to Jimmy Taylor and Tarranda. Welcome to the morbid, curious crew. Thank you so much for your support. We really, really appreciate it. And we hope that you love the added content.
Yeah, thank you.
How’s your weekend going?
It’s, it’s going. It’s amazing. Because when this episode comes out, I will have already been to Omaha. No. Which is so exciting. I’m going to Miss Emily. And everybody knows that because I want to shut up about it. So tonight, I’m going to fucking Omaha.
Yeah, girl. That’s so exciting.
I did a little research. Are you ready for it?
I’m so ready. Now we could go and like see the spot where it happened? If it’s something like that, unless it’s like a house. It’s not
but so since I haven’t been to Omaha bend to Omaha I will have when this episode comes out, right weird Inception timeline shit going on, maybe once or twice when we were in college like, but I don’t remember, it wasn’t a destination. Usually we go to Lincoln because it was way closer. Yeah, so I did have to do my research. So I’m going to tell you about Omaha. And then in a couple of weeks when I’ve actually physically been there, maybe we’ll have done some of this stuff. But first, as you know, the Henry doorly Zoo and Aquarium is ranked one of the best zoos in the world. It is the best the best zoo in the world.
To not listen to the rankings. It’s number one. Take it from me.
It’s really intentional about conservation. And as the largest indoor rain forest in North America.
It’s awesome. Except that Okay, so they have all these little habitats, which I’m sorry, I’m not trying to like step on your what you’re trying to say like the lead jungle, which is the big rain forest. Because they have habitats like they don’t necessarily have cages, right. like birds are just like flying around within it and like monkeys and shit like that. Just out in the habitat. They’re just monkeys out. Yeah, like everything’s just kind of like in there. They have their own spots. But they it’s it’s more like my actual jungle. Basically, there’s this whole area that has a bat den like a bunch of bats know that I was like looking at them. The last one was there and I was like, Where’s the like, netting that like keeps them from flying at us and my dad was like, there isn’t any.
Where’s the secret? forcefield Dad? Why don’t I have a bonnet? But it’s still really cool. You would need to set up your own Race for the Cure rabies okay. The other week Emily, you were talking about Sacramento because you did Richard chase as America’s Farm to Fork town. But in my research, Omaha may be giving Sacramento a run for its money. Some of the restaurants on the Good Food 100 list are from Omaha, including Dante, which is a pizza place right by my house Italian place but they do pizza is it and kitchen table which you and I will check out and have checked out by the time this podcast is coming. So
it’s very, like if we say like it was so good, but then we have to also record saying it was overrated. So swap it if we’re wrong.
So obviously I checked out the menus because I’m a fat kid at heart. So Dante like I said this in Italian restaurant and it’s got woodfired pizza, which I love. So it Dante is if I wanted to treat myself which I probably would bison add in latte, which is it has Sherry brace shallots, roasted oyster mushroom, and ramps and I don’t know what ramps are on my email, like at the skate park, but I didn’t you take a bite of it and
then you’re like, what do you have to go on a skateboard?
I’m Tony Hawk now pitches. But you know, I would get the bison because I’m in the heartland. I want the bison it’s right there. And kitchen table is a little bit more unassuming. Its motto is slow food fast, which I’m super into. And they’re off to see if I really am feeling this when we’re there. But when I looked at the menu the other day, pulled pork Reuben or chicken and dumpling soup. depending on the weather, obviously, if it’s rainy which it probably will be when I’m there. Chicken and dumpling soup so good. But a poor pork Reuben though, How good does that sound?
It’s like pulled pork butt, throw some ribbon dressing on it and like, oh my god can la Italian kiss
that Lastly, the most random thing I found, which is Jocelyn castle, which I know we are going to because Emily sent me an itinerary. It’s like color coded. She’s out, Emily and Rachel’s day. There’s weather on it. I am so excited. So I’m like, No, I know how to dress. It’s the best i’d love it. I
figured anyone else would think I was a psychopath, but you’d be like this is amazing thing.
I texted it to my friend Jamie who’s also very organized and she was like, She’s my people. But there’s a fucking Castle in the middle of Omaha, Nebraska. So it is Scottish baronial style. So we could just check out the gardens whenever we could schedule a tour the gardens or a public green space in Midtown, so you could bring a lunch or basic bit charcuterie and just have a little picnic in the park, which is really fun. But today, obviously, I’m going to tell you a little bit about some city history in Omaha. The bootlegging Queen of Nebraska, Louise vinciquerra.
Oh, you’re resting. I haven’t. But you know, I did Annie cook who was also that like, big bootlegger, but she wasn’t in Omaha. But I’m like, I guess it makes sense that Nebraska would have a lot of bootlegging back in the day. I love it that it’s women. Yeah, get
Unknown Speaker 6:43
I actually, I don’t know if I talked about this in my story or not. But in my research, I saw that a lot of times, men who were bootleggers would make their wives put their names on shit or make their wives through the transporting of alcohol. Because cops are pretty strict on men during Prohibition, but they were way less likely to pull over a woman and even less likely to, like search said woman for fear of the woman saying, Oh my god, the officer touched me because this is the 20s and 30s, early 30s. They could like hide it under their big hoop dresses, like tape into their legs.
I don’t know how you tape beer to your legs, but you know, yeah, just hide it under your dress and then be like, you want me to lift up my skirt excuse. Right? But
a lot of these women did it because they felt social pressure from
their husbands or marital pressure not social pressure was probably a good way for their husbands to make sure their wives didn’t tattle on them. Like you’re an accomplished nabbit fucking lately,
but Louisa Kara did it cuz she fucking wanted to. Bad. So proud. So first, a quick refresher about prohibition because we haven’t really covered it in detail. It is horrible history, in my opinion, as I drink my truly hard lemonade, sponsor us truly. So in the US, alcohol possession, sales and other things like that, that were generally fun. were illegal from 1998 to 1933. Nationwide, everything that was fun, illegal, everything that was fun, no put the kibosh on it. But good old Nebraska was a little more uptight back then. So the temperance movement in Nebraska started to gain some traction in 1890. They even voted for an amendment to the state’s constitution for temperance, essentially prohibition, right. First, a quick refresher about prohibition. In the US alcohol possession, sales, all of the other things that were generally fun, were illegal. From 1919 to 1933, nationwide.
What if they made it illegal to binge watch Criminal Minds? be devastated?
I would be in jail. But yeah, that’s true. I would be like, Fuck off. I’ve been so fucking busy this weekend. I haven’t watched a single episode of Criminal Minds since Friday night. It is now Sunday night. And I am devastated. I was thinking about it today when I was cleaning or I don’t know playing with my children like God.
No, I hate to tell you, but I loved you and probably a good season ahead of you.
I know you said that. Hotch was doing something and I was like, why does he do that? Yeah, you’ll get there. A year and a half. Now I’ll have to download some episodes and watch them on the plane. Maybe? Yes, do that. Okay, but Nebraska was even more uptight than the rest. The continental US still is still is. Although Nebraska is a weird state because you get your like half liberal, half conservative, it just depends on where you are.
Yeah, three electoral college votes, two of which generally go republican and one of which is basically the city of Omaha. When went blue last go around, so I’m like, okay, thank God.
Yeah, you’re two thirds conservative 1/3,
which is actually kind of nice, because so like St. Louis, super liberal town, but always went red because Missouri, right, you know, so I always felt like, my vote didn’t really count. Yeah. And now here, at least in Omaha, it probably will kind of okay, that’s kind of cool.
Unknown Speaker 10:44
the temperance movement in Nebraska started to gain some traction in 1890. Remember, nationwide prohibition started 1919. So this is a solid like, 30 years before this. They even voted for an amendment to the state’s constitution saying that we should make alcohol illegal. It did take a while. But they finally got their way and made manufacturing and selling alcohol illegal in 1916. Three years before
the rest of the country. Did. You have finovate? Oh, my God.
Yeah. And believe it or not, progressive women think suffragettes were on board with this. So they believe that prohibition would help reduce poverty and mental illness. Because back then, people were drinking a lot. A lot like rat boy a lot. On average, four shots a day.
Shots shots, like one morning noon and night, or like all at night. Wow. Those are my go hard days. Yeah, that’s like
doing some laundry shot. Kids screaming shot. Oh my god, I’d be dead if I took a shot every time my kids shot cha cha cha every bar. So and proper with proper, you know, air quotes, would not be engaged in this sort of tipsy while you’re folding laundry behavior, obviously, out there.
I plan on us being tipsy for a lot of you.
Every every single activity that Emily planned on our itinerary is like, why didn’t share Kuta re before we go get dinner and drinks.
I hate to tell you this almost. But when I am at sea level, it’s very difficult for me to get tipsy.
I know I’m like she’s gonna need she’s gonna be coming down to sea level. So I’m gonna need to just start start loading her up, right?
Maybe you’re planning for that, which is why you’re like wine, and then we go out for drinks, and then maybe a little nightcap at the fire pit.
Listen, I’m an excellent hostess. I just whip a flask out. I’m like me.
It’s got our horrible history logo at it. We absolutely do. Yeah, shot shots. Okay, so luckily for horrible history lovers, Louise vinciquerra was not a proper woman. Yeah, girl. She was born Louise pure cello in Sicily, around 1900. And she came to Omaha in early adolescence, around 1910. So she was 10 ish. When she was 13 years old. She got married because you know, she was 27 and today’s years to Sebastiano vinciquerra. And by 15 years old she had two fucking babies. Carlin Sam, two boys. I’m sorry. How old are 15? So married at 13. Kate at 14 can have 15
that? Nope, that’s not okay.
And this was 1913 when she got married.
13 still seems really young. Even back then.
Yeah, yeah. Wow. So I don’t have any information about what she was doing as a teen mom for the next five or six years. But I’m imagining a lot of diaper changing. Probably some day drinking considering how much the average Nebraskan was drinking. Yeah, but I do know by April of 1923, she definitely had been making a name for herself. Louise and her husband Sebastiano. were accused of selling liquor, strike one to underage kids who drank too.
She’s like, Okay, I have two fucking babies. I should be able to drink right anytime I want.
Allegedly, Louise and Sebastian, I know had some sort of bootlegger business cards. So and she was distributing them at the high schools in college like can’t get your booze.
She’s just good at marketing God,
I know right? Respect, so the kids would go to the vinciquerra home and buy the alcohol. Just a reminder because women at the time were considered to be clapper, and cops didn’t want to search them. Husbands involved in nefarious activities would often have their wives be the ones to transport the alcohol. So it wasn’t big news that Sebastiano ended up pleading guilty to the charge of selling liquor to underage kids. And he was fined $100.
Which was lovely a lot back then.
Yeah, I didn’t do the calculator this time, but I’m gonna guess 2000 I was gonna say 2000 2000 calories
must be right then
ish. Obviously, we’re right. Don’t Google it. Just let us have this one. So what is surprising, Louise she wasn’t even at the hearing. She wasn’t in court that day. However, April 4 1923, the day after sebastiana was fined. Louise invited reporters to her home. And by the way, this house was impressive. The Omaha world Herald would report that it was furnished with mahogany tables, upholstered chairs, and $1,000 Electric player piano. She’s like Ron fucking burgundy I’m talking about I have many lab leather bound books in my apartment. smells of rich mahogany.
I was literally just gonna be like, do you think she had lots of leather bound? Is this 1919 to 23? Okay, well, I googled it. $100 in 1919. So pretty close was about 100 or 15 $143.
So we share a little higher this one.
I have cut that part out. Trickery, trickery,
editing magic. So at this point, Louisa is 23 years old. She’s dressed up in a coat that would make PETA very angry. Some sort of animal for her. For what she said. She didn’t mean to distribute business cards to high school students. But also she was annoyed because Sebastiano is over here getting all the fucking credit. And actually, she is the brains behind this old bootleg operation. So
he looks good on that wanted poster. Why am I not on one
day? I mean, these reporters are in her home. She invited them there. And she told them, quote, I manage the place more than three fourths of the time. She basically is like this dick is getting all the credit for my goddamn hard work.
That’s amazing. I love her. It’s like Lady, you don’t even want to know. It still happens.
I know. I know. And rip Louise vinciquerra. She was really really good as a bootlegger. She had this kind of personality where she could sell to fancy people, doctors, lawyers, bankers, etc. And she had netted over $45,000 in 1923 money, which I did look up over $850,000 in today’s money, and she’s 23 years old. She told this to the motherfucking newspaper. She’s like I made so much money. But then she said, Don’t you worry because I am leaving the bootlegging business for good. At that point, her boys Carlin Sam were seven and eight years old and she wanted to be there for them. I’m quitting. I’m going straight and becoming a mom
full time. seven to eight years later.
And of course this interview led police right to her door. And when they arrived, she she pulled my favorite movie of all time. The cops are like we’ve got a warrant and she asked for permission to quote doll up which I was like I fucking get it. Are there gonna be reporters there because I would like to put my face on first please.
Oh my gosh. Did you watch the new Jodi arius documentary?
What am I so far behind?
I’m still only watching criminal minds. I’m
also watching criminal minds. I have a list of everything I need to watch after when no one is no longer talking about it. Jodi arias bugs the shit out of me though. She’s
she was one that she when they said they’re going to arrest her because they were like, interrogating her and they’re like Alright, well we’re gonna have to take you in now and she was like, I know this is gonna make me look really vain but like, Can I go fix myself up and they were like no nope, we’re taking you as is sorry bitch.
Which Honestly, I get like I get wanting to look your best hashtag type three areas is not one of us know, when we spent sicura baby. But I don’t think that the prohibition agent, Bob some mardik which I think is a ridiculous name was a huge fan because he basically told her she looked fine because nobody’s going to see her in jail which is pretty safer. But regardless, he did allow her to walk her boys over to the neighbor’s house before he escorted her to jail.
That’s nice. I thought so.
But of course, Louise needed to make a step along the way. So she she wanted to stop at her uncle’s to let him know that she was going to jail so he could post bail. But bbsome hardik was again offended telling her I’m not a chauffeur. Honestly, respect. Yeah, true. She’s like, let’s just make a quick stop. I just want to get out of jail as quickly as possible. Her uncle probably did pay her bond because she didn’t stay in jail for more than a day or two. However, she was not done bootlegging for the sake of her children, and she wasn’t done making headlines. So this next part is a little confusing, because everyone is named Louise. Essentially, Louise vinciquerra has a cousin named Louise Salerno, who at the time was 21 years old and trigger warning, pedophilia and sexual assault. Louise Salerno, his uncle by marriage, Peter surfaris had sexually assaulted her when she was about 10 years old. Oh, God. Yeah. So on New Year’s Eve, 1923 Peter Safar us and Louise Vincent cara, were driving together to Council Bluffs. I don’t know why, but I’m assuming they’re like not really related because he’s the other Louise’s uncle by marriage and she’s the Louise’s are cousins.
They both like in the same they all mama in 1923 like they know they’re not that big of a play
well so this is a tight knit Italian community so they probably all kind of know each other as well. So for whatever reason on this drive this fucker starts telling our Louise vinciquerra that he had assaulted her cousin Louise when she was a child
I’ll have to confess my god
yeah, I don’t know if he’s drunk or what and then he allegedly threatened to kill Louise vinciquerra if she told her cousin Louie Salerno that he was talking about it.
Like you could have just not talked about, right?
Like Don’t close your big fat mouth and also stop assaulting children. Yeah, but to Luis vinciquerra didn’t give a fuck and told her cousin about it anyway. So after comparing stories, the Louise’s ask Louise Salerno, his younger sister, if Peter surfaris had ever done anything to them of sisters, there’s more than one sister. I don’t know how old they were. I don’t know if he actually sexually assaulted these children or attempted assault or verbally assaulted. I don’t know. The article I read had asked. They, Louisa Charisse and Louise Salerno said they asked these sisters, so the Louise’s cousins if Peter surfaris had ever, quote, tried anything with them, and the children confirmed that he had. So Louise Salerno freaked out, she called Peter surfaris and asked him to come over no idea under what pretenses she asked him to come over. And I’m going to read about a paragraph from a newspaper article about what happened when he did come over. So, Omaha, Nebraska, January 13 1924. Pierce of Harris 33 years old was shot to death at three o’clock this afternoon by his niece by marriage, Mrs. Louise Salerno, 21 years old, as surfaris attempted to walk through the door of her home with a revolver in each hand. Mrs. Salerno followed her uncle into the yard and fired from both pistols again as he fled around the corner into a pool room and fell dead according to police bed. Louise Marino 16, another Louise, who, who with her younger sister, Lena was walking across the street was shot through the left arm by one of the bullets, no, quote, he paid, he paid his life for my honor. I explained Mrs. Salerno a half hour later when she walked into central police station and surrender to Captain Thorpe, accompanied by her daughter Sarah five and Mrs. Louise vinciquerra, a cousin who witnessed the shooting. She turned two pistols over to the police, one containing two just discharged cartridges to the other three. Mrs. Salerno told police that surfaris first attacked her in 1913 and he had forced her to submit to later assaults under threats.
I love that she just went in she’s like, hey, he took my honor away, so I killed his ass. Yeah.
What do you want to see? And also she’s 21 and has a five You’re old so which means she also had her kid at 16. So apparently this is a pretty common thing that then that added to it. Even though it sounds like there were other people close by like the 16 year old who got fucking shot. Louise vinciquerra was the only real eyewitness to the whole thing. So she was called to testify on her cousin’s behalf in May of 1924. However, Louise had just barely avoided a 60 day jail sentence because of her bootlegging. So she note that in Nebraska and hid out in Oklahoma right before the trial and nobody could find her.
Wait, so she like abandoned her cousin.
Yeah, she’s not gonna do that because I don’t want to end up in jail.
I have a written notice of you.
I think you’re innocent anywho Louis Salerno was acquitted so i don’t i’m assuming because they said shot in the arm and not killed the other Louise the 16 year old was probably also fine. Yeah, except for traumatize never wear body pads all over just seriously. Let’s jump forward to September because I don’t know what the fuck Louise was.
She’s just filming a musical. Oh,
yeah, I just got that. I you have full channeling. Okay, at this point. Louise is still married to Sebastiano. But she’s very friendly with a prohibition agent named Earl Haining. This is pretty extra badass on her part, in my opinion, but she’s like, I’m gonna be a little touchy feely friendly with a prohibition agent. And Earl was actually found out by under cover agents. So what happens is these agents come to Louise’s house and they asked to purchase booze. So Louise sends Earl to go pick up the booze for her. And then later when they’re raiding her home, burl is found a block away sneaking her son’s away from
she’s always like, shit get the kids out of here. Which respect? Yeah, good. So
after this URL is no longer a prohibition officer obviously, and becomes an official part of Louise’s bootlegging ring. Like,
he’s like, okay, but I’m not leaving this situation. I
guess I’m fuckin in this. I mean, he threw away his entire career for her. Yeah, I think he really cared about her. I don’t know exactly when the two of them started a romantic relationship. But by March of 1926 Louise asked Sebastiano for a divorce, but didn’t do a ton of research on Sebastiano because the story is really about Luis, but let’s just say no one described him as a peaceful kind man. He was in and out of jail much like Louise, however, unlike and he and he was involved in bootlegging, but unlike Louise, he was reportedly pretty violent. So after Louise asked him for a divorce, Sebastiano decided that if he couldn’t have her know what could one night as she was sleeping, Sebastiano snuck into Louise’s room and emptied his entire revolver. So I’ve got another quote because the Omaha world Herald report excellent. It says the bullet zipped about the woman’s head to ripped into the pillow at her left two more at the right wall a fifth hit the wall above her head. As she heard the click of an empty chamber and the gun, Louise left from bed, seized a revolver and began a counter attack. Her first shot missed and crashed into the mirror, Sebastiano dodged and ran. she pursued him out of the house and two blocks away firing at him as he ran. She was clad only in a night gown and was barefooted. He gained a waiting automobile however, and escaped.
I’m like, what a picture. And also he’s a terrible shot. If he was like a sleeping target. And he missed five times. Like Come on, but this
bitch has like a gun on her nightstand. She’s like, she chases a bear down the road. Amazing. After this incident, Louise told the paper Well, I’m not afraid of him, though. No man can make me run. badass. Only after him with my guns. Yeah, but not from because they’re like, what are you going to do? If he comes back? He got away and she’s like, I’m not scared of him.
I’m gonna shoot him again.
Absolutely. You didn’t take my revolver? I did. Yeah. So Louise is able to divorce Sebastiano on cruelty charges because remember in the 20s he had to have a pretty damn good reason to get divorce. You can just get divorced and Earl Haining who by the way is also married? gets his own divorce. Oh, he was arrested on a charge of quote. Wife desertion. Oh he’s like see I’m going after.
Oh my god, these guys have all been arrested like multiple. Oh yeah.
And this guy is the former prohibition agent which I love. So in 1928 Louise and Earl get married I think they live relatively happily probably still doing some bootlegging but nothing is reported on them for a few years. So you know, like probably they’re fine. And then and I think they live with the two boys, Sam and Carl. So then in 1932 so this is four years after Louise and her older married. Sebastiano resurfaces with all of his toxic masculinity in tow. He shows up at Louisa Earls house, and sebastiao and Louise get into a heated argument. Earl stepped in to defend Louise and yada yada yada shots were fired. There are conflicting reports about what happened but we know for sure that Carlin Sam the sons run into see their dad wounded seriously. And their stepdad Earl was shot in the elbow. That sounds painful. It really does not as bad I mean sebastiana was seriously injured. Earl is like this.
This is inconvenient. I’m like, Oh, poor Earl. My funny bone. Not a funny situation.
Horrible history. When he was in the hospital, Sebastiano blamed Earl for the whole thing and said that he would have plenty of opportunities to kill him Have you wanted to kill him? He said basically Earl stole my wife away for me so if I had wanted him dead I would have shot him back then. Um, but both Sebastiano and Earl survived this gunfight and got Louise though ended up filing for divorce from Earl I’m not doing I’m not really sure why, like maybe as a protective measure so that sebastiana would get the fuck out. Because they were so close. The next year 1929 Earl was actually at Louise’s house in her basement drinking beer with some friends. They’re probably haven’t a little gathering, still prohibition. Suddenly, three bullets blew through the basement window, striking URL in his chest in his abdomen. Earl Haining died at the hospital after naming Sebastiano as his attacker.
He was still coming for him my god allegedly
sebastiana does go on to deny this. And he was eventually convicted of murder but then it was overturned because of lack of evidence. So they they couldn’t pin on essentially, like Burrell said sebastiana I think he has last words are not last words. But in the hospital. He said like he finally got me or something, but they couldn’t prove it was him. So I think it probably was, but who else was editorializing? Yeah. So after all of this, things start to go downhill for Louise. The 21st amendment is ratified in 1933, ending prohibition, and by the end of 1934, Nebraska finally caught up with the rest of the fucking country and made alcohol illegal. The end of 1934 it was like November. So this was good news for most people who enjoy drinking, but Louisa Cara really didn’t know a life as anything but bootlegger. And at this
point, she saved some of that money she was making.
She moved Carlin Sam to Hastings to make a fresh start and she opened a rose out Roadhouse. Bye, but she didn’t get a liquor license from the Hastings City Council. So her Roadhouse was rated repeatedly,
Lady sometimes you got to just follow the fucking rules.
Yeah, yeah. She focused on that mom life for a while. her sons were older, late teens, early adulthood at this point. She really took pride in SAM who would help her kind of do the family thing and he went to college and Clairol actually became an Olympic boxer on the 1936. Wow. And she moved back to Omaha at some point in the late 30s. Maybe 1940 ish, marrying again. He’s not relevant. I know this guy. Same but he went to prison and Louise divorced him. Yeah, she tries to start over again, leaving Nebraska in the early 40s for good and she goes to Bisbee, Arizona. She bought a cafe which allowed her to put her sons through college, which is cool, but this is where her life would end. In September 1948 Louise left her apartment with a mysterious young And somewhere near a highway between Bisbee and Tombstone, Arizona, Louise vinciquerra was shot with a 45 caliber bullet. Her burned skeleton was found by a road crew near Tombstone, Arizona in December 1948. So a couple months later, she was 49 years old.
Damn. So somebody like snuffed her like, earlier than
they are we still fucking don’t know who her death is still an unsolved mystery. Oh, my God was murdered. We don’t really know who killed her
or why she left her house with a young guy. Um, another lover, I’m sure maybe
and she was married to some other guy at this point. And he had reported her missing they found her birth back two months later, so it was him. Maybe it’s always the husband, I think so that this is like husband number four or five. But after her reign, as bootlegging Queen was ended. She never really found her place in the world. And the late 20s when she had less than $20 to her name and couldn’t pay her latest liquor fine. She was quoted as saying the racket doesn’t pay a break. See you in the end.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure everyone knows that Louise.
But that’s the craziest story of the Wiens vinciquerra, the bootlegging, Queen of Nebraska.
Oh my gosh, so good. Such a crazy story. Also, I can’t decide if Louise is my hero, or just like Louise, get your shit together.
I think she did the best she could with what she had. You know, like she got married at fucking 13 years old. She was around by 14 years old. She basically was in this life of crime. And then when it wasn’t illegal to do what she was doing, then she is like, what the fuck am I supposed to do now? Because she
would have been like, now everyone can just go to a store and the things I was provided
she would have been like 30 with teenage children, or the teenage children, and she’s a widow and have any other like education or training or skills. Like what the fuck was she supposed to do?
Right? Oh, man.
I think it’s a sad story. I really wish I knew more about her death and what she was involved in. But there just isn’t a ton about your life at that point.
Yeah, seems like I think there could be a lot of sad for possibly getting caught in like the vicious circle of like, being a criminal, you know, of like, once you been arrested, how easy is it for you to get a normal job, so you have to stick with your illegal bootlegging and like the cycle of it all.
I like to tell clients when I’m working with people who are single and want to be in a relationship, and they’re like, Why can I stop attracting shitty people? I tell them the therapy word for it is differentiation. But my words for it is like we tend to attract people who are similar levels of fucked up that we are. So if you’re like what I mean, like not the same kind of fucked up, but similar levels, right? Like, if you don’t have your shit together, and you’re trying to find someone who does you want. And I think that was very much the case for Louise because she kept dating men who were going to jail even though she was trying to turn her life around. And it’s like, you got to focus on yourself first got to put on your own oxygen mask and then everybody else is in right. So that’s that’s my heartache. But well,
I hope that when this comes out, we will have had an awesome time in Omaha and none of us will have gotten arrested or murder like that. But you know. Thank you for sharing this awesome story about Omaha. It’s like, it’s weird now that this is my home town now it’s like, I guess yeah.
But the town where your home is
so strange to hear about Omaha and not just like, Oh, I grew up there and be like, I live here. Oh my god.
I live here now.
Yeah, Captain. No. It’s my favorite fucking club. I’ve never seen that movie. Now. There
is like a it’s not called a horrible history tour. But there is a like haunted history, I think tour of Omaha, which is cool.
I know. I looked into it. It’s only from August to October. There. I
mean, there’s definitely some cool history in Omaha. So yeah, looking forward to seeing some of it in real life.
Yeah, I was talking to my friend Hannah yesterday on the phone. And she told me that in St. Joe, Missouri, which is probably like a three hour drive from here. There’s a psychiatric museum that it’s like in a place that used to be an old psychiatric hospital and they have like, display is about lobotomies and like, okay, so nice that Yeah, and I was like, Okay, well, I don’t think we have like a whole day to dedicate because you have to drive there and everything. But yeah, I was like, I have to put that on my list of things I would like to do.
Yeah. Oh, man. That would be really fun. Yeah. Alrighty. Are you ready? I know you’re doing a big story. I I have no idea what it is, but you’re like doing a backstory.
I enjoyed. I enjoyed this of researching this one. Okay. Okay, so I’m going to New York City last week. Have you been in real life?
Yes, Anna. Yes.
That’s right. You have been on the pod. Yeah. What was your favorite part when you were there?
So I haven’t been since I was a kid, like eight or nine years old. But when we went, like I took Polaroid pictures of the Twin Towers, which is pretty cool.
Oh, my God. That’s like a keepsake at this point. Yeah.
And, you know, I think it’s a library with those like Big Gold lion statues, and then people can ice skate. So I really enjoyed just like, I don’t know, the feel of the city and people a skating and everything so pretty. And yeah, yeah, I really like yeah, at least I did when I was eight.
I do too. So I’ve been in New York multiple times. And I was in New York City is like a multi trip city, you just, there’s no possible way to see it all in one vacation. Even if you were there. Like for 20 days, I feel like you’d still miss things. And you’d be like, exhausted by day 10. Anyways, so you’d be like, I just want to stay in the hotel. But I’ve been lucky to go there multiple times a couple of work trips. And then like I had two friends that lived there. So I went back multiple times for them, and got to really get to know the city. And I would say like, I don’t think I’d want to live there. Unless I could live like Sarah Jessica Parker on like Fifth Avenue, like downtown Manhattan, but it’s a lot like it’s just a lot. But so if I were going to take someone to New York City, and show them around for the first time, here’s what I would. Here’s where I would go. I would first well not first this is in no particular order.
But we’re good. We did all
Yeah, Time Square because you have to like obviously if especially if it’s your first trip to New York, like I don’t think you feel like you’ve been in New York without going to Times Square. I don’t think you need to, like go to the m&m store or like all this stuff like down there. But just to be in the middle of the street at night to see all the lights like that’s quintessential New York City, so you gotta go. I also highly, highly recommend the Chelsea Market which is in the Meatpacking District in New York. And it is the coolest so think of like this massive old building in the Meatpacking District. So it probably used to be some sort of meatpacking plant, but so they’ve sectioned it all off into little stores. And so you can like it’s kind of like a food Hall but kind of like just rows of shops so you can go in and like go and get food from a fishmonger or like meat from a meat butcher, meat butcher, you know from a butcher. There’s like a you know, you can get artisanal cheeses or fresh produce or like imported Italian dry goods. You just kind of it’s so like my vibe now of what I would want to go do so that was one last time I was in New York for a business trip. I went there just like walk around by myself and like it’s just such a cool place that does some really fun.
You know, I love a farmers market. Oh my god later to a farmers market. I’m so basic. I love it.
Me too. So, so true. So it’s like that on crack. Slash, like not farmer. I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah, so even it’s like it’s like game day orders market. Yeah, kind of, um, I’m also a sucker for Broadway. Another like quintessential New York City experience. Would love to be able to see wicked on actual Broadway. I’ve seen it multiple times not on Broadway, but I did see The Addams Family, Billy Elliot and Mary Poppins on Broadway. That’s fun. Right Mary Poppins. It’d
be really fun on Broadway. She
like flew down through the crowd. It was really awesome. Yeah. You have to get a big slice of pizza to eat. That’s like obviously you have to you’re in New York. big slice size of your head greasy served on a paper plate like you just buy one slice. It’s so good. I would go to Joe’s pizza, which is the one I went to with Carson The first time I was in New York. It’s just one of those best places in New York. I can feel my stomach like
rebelling like don’t do a pitch don’t do. Note the lactose intolerance is like Are you sure? I really tell you.
Exactly. Definitely would want to go on a subway ride just to experience it. But mostly you want to walk and take Ubers because honestly the subway is fucking disgusting. Yeah. And ever since I’ve been to London I’m like a snob and I don’t ever use public transportation other than the tube but you know, there’s of course like zillion museums, but I’d probably want to go if I had to pick one I’d want to go to Guggenheim. It’s like crazy, cool art museum, awesome architecture. It’s like this circular, white circular building. So the building itself is like a piece of art kind of which is awesome. And obviously, if it was us, we’d go and see the friends building one. Yeah, in Greenwich Village. And even if we did all of that, which sounds like a long and exhausting trip, there’s still things like Central Park, the Met Union Station, Rockefeller Center’s Statue of Liberty, like the list goes on and on. So lots of things to do. And those are just the touristy things. You know. There’s lots of little pockets of just things that you can do that. I don’t know about that. It’s harder to Google. So multiple trips, multiple trips, for sure. Okay, that was my schpeel on New York City.
let’s dive into some horrible stories. Okay. Now, before I tell you who I’m going to talk about today, before I give it away, I’m going to read a paragraph that was written about this person, so you can kind of get like a feel for who they are. Okay. Okay. I saw her 32 years ago, that is in 1907. She was then about 40 years of age and at the height of her physical and mental faculties. She was five feet six inches tall, a blonde with clear blue eyes, a healthy color, and a somewhat determined mouth and jaw. She had a good figure and might have been called athletic had she not been a little too heavy, which I’m like, fuck off dude, main road. She prided herself on her strength and endurance, and at the time, and for many years thereafter, never spared herself in the exercise of it. Nothing was so distinctive about her as her walk. Unless it was her mind. The two had a peculiarity in common. Those who knew her best in the long years, said she walked more like a man than a woman, and that her mind had a distinctively masculine character. She could write an excellent letter. So far as composition and spelling were concerned. She wrote in a large, clear, bold hand, and with remarkable uniformity. She was an ill tempered woman, but an excellent Baker and her specialty was a delightful dessert. If that dessert had been an apple pie, we’d likely never have known her name. But her specialty was peaches over ice cream, oh, and uncooked dish. And because of this, she’s now a very well known name and horrible history. typhoid Mary. typhoid Mary. Mary Ellen, better known as typhoid Mary.
Know, I was like, okay, she was brighter. Are you doing a famous poet? Like, I’ve never picture as a blonde. I always picture her with dark hair. I
don’t know why, right. Me too. Yeah. So that except for the end, where I editorialize, that is an excerpt of a book written by a man who like basically chased her down years. If you don’t know the story, you’ll hear it. listener, you’ll hear it as I go. But so he wrote this whole book about this, like, how it went down and everything and so I got a lot of good information from his book.
I’m so excited. I’ve wanted to do this one. So I’m taking it
on. I know it was such a fun research. It’s long, like I have, I think, eight or nine pages, because there’s a lot more to it than I feel like I’ve heard like, I don’t know, let’s get into it. So shall we dig in? Is there a pun there? No, I don’t know. Don’t eat
Not No. Okay. So although our story, as I mentioned, is going to take place in New York. We’re going to start in Ireland because this is where Mary Mallon was born. So Mary was born in 1869. In Cookstown County, Tyrone Ireland, and life there was not pleasant. So this is mainly because of the great potato famine of 1845. It lasted until about 1850. But the worst years were between 45 and 49. And it’s estimated that almost 1 million people died, and another million people, Irish people emigrated by the end of the famine. So the Ireland’s population was over 8,000,018 41. But by 1851, it was reduced to about 6.5 million. So yeah, big hit on Irish population. And then the immigration pattern of the Irish people did not stop in 1951 when the famine ended between 52 and 1900. So through the rest of the century. Yeah, I guess technically a century um, 2 million additional Irish emigrated to New York City
because that was that was the place right? Like That was how people got to America. That’s where Ellis Island is. And you couldn’t get us if you weren’t coming through Ellis Island.
anymore places. Yeah, that was I think you could maybe not if you were coming over from
overseas, like maybe if you’re coming from like Mexico or Canada, but even Canada, I think they go through New York.
Yeah, who knows? That is one part I did not look into.
It’s always the ship that we don’t research. I’m like, Well, I could tell you this. And you’re like,
I do know, and I’m trying to see if I scan to see if I had it written down. But I read something somewhere that said something like most people who immigrated were forced to stay in the town that they landed in. I’ve heard that so because it couldn’t, like afford to move or they like kind of had to be quarantined there or whatever. And so, to me, that makes it sound like, like when they just say we’re forced to stay in New York, if it was all New York. Yeah. Anyways. Okay, so the majority of people who came over were forced to take the cheapest option available to them. So they would board something called coffin ships. Why that would cross the Atlantic. And I don’t know, I think it was probably like slang or whatever, like what people call I don’t think they actually were like, labeled, like, Come aboard the coffin ship here.
But imagining they’re all just laying on these cots and you can’t move and you have to have your arms crossed over. Just on the coffin ship, go into America,
hold your breath. pretend like you’re dead.
Like pasty big on all of them. This is fine. Everything’s fine.
This is part of the journey. Yes. Well, so they weren’t really run down what in ships. And so they took several weeks to make the crossing. And the hygiene standards were terrible. So these diseases spread really quickly on the ships. And there was nowhere near enough food to go around to everyone. And so it was kind of inevitable that people died on their journey to America. Hence the name coffin ships because they would arrive at Ellis Island and like, be get people on board were dead. So super creepy. I’m like, so burn it to the burn it to the ground. Yeah, for that. Yes.
Okay. Ocean funeral just
just sent it off into the water.
Yeah, watch it. Glorious.
The ones who did survive often did have to be quarantined before they were allowed to set foot on like the ground and enter the city because that feels familiar.
And triggering. I
know, right? It’s like a trigger a trigger trigger. Yeah, I know a lot of this. I was like, Oh, we all know a lot of what this feels like now. Yes. So most of these people are malnourished. They’re uneducated. They’re arriving with not a single penny to their name. They spent what little money they had on the passage over probably like bartering for food from whoever has it, that kind of stuff. And so Oh, yeah. So they had no choice but to stay in whatever city they landed in and just take whatever work they were offered. And Sure. So Mary Malin was part of that group of immigrants as she emigrated to America in 1884, when she was just 15 years old. Wow. So initially, she lived with her aunt and uncle and worked a series of domestic servant jobs until at some point, it all the articles said this, and I’m just like, I wish I could be a fly on the wall to see what this means. But it’s like she discovered she had an exceptional talent as a cook. And I’m just like, this seems odd to like, just all of a sudden, like, discover your talent. I don’t know why to me. Oh, yeah, it’s like at 15 you think by 15 you’re cooking already? I don’t know. I mean,
I just didn’t have the tools or the opportunities like that’s true. You know, I didn’t realize what a good Baker I was until I got my very own KitchenAid mixer.
It was like hot damn,
I’m very good at this. Now that next everything by
hand. Speaking of I made homemade bagels yesterday and I were amazing. Like so I’m never buying bagels again, except for from Panera.
Put that on your fucking Bumble Just like pictures of you and your homemade bagels because I’m like, Who wouldn’t want to marry you? Somebody marry me?
Yes. Okay. So she finds out she’s an exceptional cook and she leans right into that profession because cooks are paid much higher wages than maids are. Now, Around this time, typhoid fever was a disease that was running rampant around the globe. And so little deep dive quick, deep dive on typhoid. It is a bacterial disease caused by salmonella Teifi. And although it’s pretty rare and industrialized countries, typhoid fever is a really significant threat even still today to low income cut. Trees. Symptoms of typhoid range from mild to serious and usually develop one to three weeks after exposure to the bacteria. Symptoms include fever, headache, nausea, constipation or diarrhea, loss of appetite and a rose colored rash on the body. Now, it may also lead to intestinal bleeding and perforation, which can in turn cause severe abdominal abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, sepsis, like, that’s how you start to have people die from this because they really go downhill and it like eats away the inside of their intestines. And so they need surgery to have their intestines repaired. And that’s a whole big possible complication, essentially. And then when you get into that point where you have sepsis potentially, then you can have inflammation of the heart muscle or the lining of the heart valves, you can get pneumonia, you can have inflammation of the pancreas, like meningitis, kidney and bladder infections, and eventually delirium, which leads to death. Like, yeah, delirium is kind of the last thing where you’re kind of like the cannibals on the assets. A couple episodes ago, like, once people get delirious, it’s like, okay, here it is, they’re gonna die.
Unknown Speaker 56:13
you did that one in Scotland about that surgeon. Right? And you’re talking about surgery in the 1800s. It wasn’t sanitary, like no needed surgery, maybe you could get it but it’s just a bunch of guys in the room chopping things and sanded to close and somebody else is gonna die
even if they’re not the patient, right? So it’s like, you’re they’re like, Okay, well, you’re dying and you need surgery. And that person’s like, wait, you want to cut me open with no anesthesia? No, thanks. Yeah. So here’s how typhoid fever spreads, which I think we probably all kind of know this, but it’s person to person can’t be spread animal to person. And it’s, it’s spread via contaminated food and water. And transmission is via the fecal oral route, which means basically,
poop to mouth
poop to mouth. Title of this episode, title of your sex tape
But so fecal oral basically means contaminated feces and sometimes urine, enter a water supply or food supply. And then if that’s consumed, it infects the people who have eaten those things. I kind of said this already. But like I said, it only lives in humans, there’s not an animal reservoir for the bacteria. So this is often why typhoid fever is more commonly found in like densely populated areas where the water supplies are vulnerable to contamination or there’s really bad sanitation. Antibiotics are an effective treatment for typhoid fever. And most patients improve after beginning and antibiotic treatment, especially if it’s detected early. But you know, back in the day, like we just talked about with surgery, it’s like how common were antibiotics at that point, if at all? I don’t even know when they came around.
Yeah, blame which penicillin invented?
might have been before the night early 1900s? I’m not really sure. I google while you do that, a person could become an asymptomatic carrier suffering no symptoms themselves of the bacteria. And 5% of the people who are infected continue to carry the disease even after they recover.
Yes. Okay. So antibiotics weren’t even invented yet. So this that line about how it’s an effective treatment is more for the nowadays. Yeah, then. And let’s see, the World Health Organization estimated that through the years, 1906 to 1960, there was anywhere from 16 to 33 million cases of typhoid worldwide, with about 215,000 of them resulting in fatalities. So I can hear the people of today saying that’s not even a very high death rate. Why should we be vaccinated? for the greater good. But here’s an interesting thing. So you know, if COVID it’s like, well, it’s a disease for old people the love typhoid, the age group with the highest incidence of infection, we’re actually children and teenagers sure they don’t wash their damn hands. They’re picking their noses and their butts all the time. There’s licking their fingers after
cancer gross or trying to put it trying to put it on you. My burgers nounce it my son today, three separate times, Mama, I have to go to the bathroom to flush this booger.
I don’t wash your goddamn hands. Clean eggs, man. How can this tiny boy have such a big booger that he needs to flush it down into?
Well, that What I told him because he’ll like pick
his nose. And then he’s like,
he used to freak the fuck out because he would have a booger on his finger. And so I’m like, put it on a piece of toilet paper and flush it. But then for like a month, he wouldn’t flush it and you would go into the toilet paper and there just be a bugger like on the roll of toilet. I don’t like Lincoln, you have to pull it off and flush it and now he does that. But now he’s like, flush my butter. Fantastic, sir. Thanks, but wash your fucking hands.
You’re gonna get typhoid. Or like
just grossed out your fucking mom. Like it’s still.
It’s so gross. So that’s a little more on tie played back to miss Mary’s story. So no one really exactly knows when Mary became infected. Some stories say she was born infected because her mother had it when she was born. Okay, maybe she’s born with it. Maybe it’s typhoid fever. Others say she got it as a child and some say it was on on the boat coming over that she got it, you know, on that coffin ship. But it’s pretty much impossible to know when she got it because Mary is one of that small percentage of people who was asymptomatic. Which for some would be a great thing. asymptomatic means you don’t have any of the symptoms you feel fine, even though you have this disease that sometimes kill people like, right, unfortunately, because she’s a cook. And because her famous dessert, which I’m like, is this really something you’ve cooked? You just scoop some ice cream and slap some peaches on top of it. Like that’s your specialty. Sorry, I’m getting judgy
but so if it’s homemade ice cream. That’s true. Like she’s making the ice cream she’s turning it she’s doing it all from scratch and then she has these peaches that maybe she like doesn’t a little
cooked them upside like Chrome or something.
Well, I don’t even know if she’s heat but I’m thinking like a like a little reduction. A little sugar. I don’t know. can be really good. homemade ice cream is delicious. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah, that’s true. They probably couldn’t buy
right. She’s not just like getting a gallon of bluebell. Yeah,
that’s a good point. So okay, I’m back on track with being impressed by this. Okay. But so this famous dessert is uncooked. Because if you cook something that has typhoid, it kills it. Yeah, it kills the bacteria. So it would be fine. But her famous dish was uncooked. And so this kind of put Mary in a unique position, because she could cause a lot of physical ailment to other people who happened to come in contact with her, even if she never got sick. And so it’s basically super bad luck that she was a cook. Yeah, Mary worked steadily as a cook from 1900 to 1906. Or that’s the trunk we’re going to talk about first. So the earliest record places her at my moronic, which is where a New York family had a house for the summer. A young man came to visit there. And he came down with typhoid 10 days after he arrived. And so this was in September of 1900. And at the time, it was thought that he got the disease during a visit to East Hampton, because that place was not super far away from the Montauk army camp. And typhoid was super prevalent in army camps because it’s like, you know, they’re dirty. They’re not cleaning themselves as often because they’re living in barracks or whatever. And so that was pretty common that they would have a influx of that disease there. So people were like, Ah, so he brought typhoid in. Sure. So no one notices that it was her yet. And then, from 1901 to 1902, Mary lived for about 11 months with a family in New York City. laundress for the family was taken to Roosevelt Hospital with typhoid during that time, and the case was seen by a doctor but not investigated. So I’m assuming because she was allowed laundress and therefore, a member of the staff the help that they assumed she brought it in herself, you know, in 1902, Mary was taken to dark Harbor, Maine, where a new house had been rented for the summer by Coleman Drayton, who was a lawyer in New York City.
Last name. Coleman Drayton, right, exactly, that guy wakes up fucking.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:40
What do you call it pocket square pocket square. She outlines wood chips.
And a case of typhoid fever occurred two weeks after she arrived. Seven days later, a second case occurred and two days after that there was a third so soon Seven out of the household nine are sick. And only two escaped from being sick. And that was Mr. Drayton who had had typhoid years before. And so was immune. And Mary. So everyone got typhoid, except for her and the head of the household. So because only two people in the whole house were not super sick with typhoid, they had a nurse come in to help take care of everyone. And like days later, but nurses sick with typhoid. So it’s like, oh, my gosh, you know, think
Yes, thank you hear our heroes. So then they bring in some doctors this Dr. Daniels from Boston, and then a doctor star of Philadelphia. And at first they kind of thought maybe the footman had brought in the cases from being infected somewhere else. But then they were like, no, because all the people who interacted with him didn’t eat any of the same foods or drink the same water. So like, they’re all super confused as to what was going on. And everyone was super sick. And so it’s just ironic. I wanted to tell this like random story, because they could not find help to take care of the family, because people kept coming in and then getting sick. Yeah. And so I’m just just picture this Mr. Drayton, and Mary Malin, working side by side taking care of the sick and like, she brought it like she’s her fault, and no one can pinpoint that it’s her. And so she’s up there like taking care of the sick and feeding them their food. And here’s similar wrap poop
ice cream. Poop ice cream, you know? No, but it’s because she’s asymptomatic. And that’s where nobody can pin it on here. Because at this point, they’re not thinking that they’re asymptomatic carriers. They’re just thinking they had no idea if you have typhoid weed now.
Yep, exactly. So And as we’ll talk about a little bit later, she also was like, adamant that she didn’t have it. She’s like, I’m not sick, like, stop. I’m not. It’s not me. Right. But so because she was there taking care of the family and, you know, probably doing the laundry and like doing all these extra tasks, because the whole family and all the staff were sick. Mr. Drayton was so like, over the moon with all the work that Mary did he like, even rewarded her with 50 extra dollars in addition to her full wages. Like, it’s just so ironic because she like literally got his family so sick. And then he’s like, hey,
thanks so much for taking care of my sick family. She’s like, poop flavored ice cream, please. It’s got some sort of secret tastes that I can’t quite place. It I don’t know.
So in 1904, Mary figured into an outbreak in the household of Mr. Harry gelsey at Sandpoint, Long Island, there were all told 11 people in his household, four in the family and seven servants. And the cook arrived on June 1. And by June 8, the laundress, who had been on staff for 10 days, so she had gotten there two days prior to Mary came down with typhoid. So it’s easier I think it’s easier for them to say like up she had it when she came in, because it’s a one to three week incubation period, right. And so then she fell ill with typhoid, and then next, the gardener and then the Butler’s wipe, and then the Butler’s wife, sister. And then there were like full four people all in total, who fell ill within three weeks of outbreak. And the cases were all basically among the servants. And they lived in a house apart from the family. And so it was kind of thought, oh, there must be something wrong with their house, you know, like, it’s the lowly servants, you know, these poor people. And so a lot of people actually came in to investigate this outbreak. And he’s the one guy who came in Dr. RL Wilson, who was the superintendent of hospitals for communicable diseases in New York City. His opinion was that it must have been the laundress She must have been infected when she started before she started employment and brought it to the house. But as much as he tried, he could not find out how this could have happened. Like he couldn’t contact trace it and figure out where she would have gotten it from. They never even like at all suspected Mary. Then in the summer of 1906, so as you can see Mary’s kind of jumping around so she’ll like go to a house and work for them and then the family is super sick and then surely, well, yeah,
cuz then she’s like, well, there’s nobody here and pay me every day.
So in the summer of 1906, she took a position For a cook for the family, she took a position as a cook for the family of New York banker, Charles Henry Warren. And this is kind of the deal, because this was loaded like he was president of the Lincoln bank in New York, and the personal banker for the vanderbilts aka Anderson Cooper’s relatives. He’s so handsome.
I was just gonna say he’s so sexy.
I know those eyes. Oh, my gosh. So Mr. Warren decides to take his family to a rented home in Oyster Bay, Long Island for a summer vacation. And so Oyster Bay FYI is swanky a, like it’s where all the Richie riches went to go vacation including Teddy Teddy Roosevelt, like, this is like the Hamptons at the time, essentially. Okay. Unfortunately, that summer was anything but pleasant for the Warren family. Because in August, a young daughter became severely ill with sickness characterized by high fevers, rash and exhaustion. quickly after that five additional members of the household develop similar illnesses, including two maids. This is Warren, the gardener and another Warren daughter. Fortunately, despite the illness being pretty bad, and like very prolonged, all of them are covered, so no one died from this household thing. So they, of course, have physicians coming out to check in on people and help. And at first, they kind of thought maybe it was a food or waterborne illness. So they did this thorough investigation of the household planning than they thought it might have been shellfish poisoning or like a milk contamination. So they looked into that and couldn’t find anything, none of these things are coming up as a reason for why people were getting sick. And the reason why they didn’t think typhoid right away is because this family was like, so wealthy and had such high end servants that they are just like, this was just not a sickness that came to the very wealthy families. So they’re like, clutching their pearls, pearls. Like this is a sickness for poor people, not us, you know, like, what, and so they were very worried about what was going on. And so they were so worried that this guy, Mr. Thompson, who actually owned the house and had rented to them, he thought maybe there was some deep issue with the house. And he was worried that if they didn’t discover the root of the problem that was leading to the sickness, then he would never be able to find tenants for his property again, you know. And so, because of this, he went to this unusual step of hiring a civil engineer, and the new fangled field of bacteriology to come and investigate. And his name was George stopper. And it’s his book that I had quoted from at the very beginning. So they’re going through all these possible things. No, it wasn’t shellfish. No, it wasn’t milk, like, it’s not something in the house. Like it’s not whatever uswest house, I don’t know if that was the thing. So they’re trying to like think through who else came into the house, like who could have done this? And then they remember, Oh, my gosh, there was a different summertime household member, a cook, who had left employment in early August, right before the disease outbreak. So she had come in and work for them, and then left, right, as everyone started to get sick,
she’s like, this keeps happening.
what in the heck, I
need to get out of here. So I don’t get
typhoid bad, right. Oh, my. Yeah, she had like eggs made out of there as quick as she could at the first sign of trouble. And so they could not find her like they have record of her name, essentially. But it’s a lot harder to find people back then. Right. So they called like the employment agency that arranged her employment and they didn’t know where she was. But Mr. software was a little sneaky snake. And so he was finally able to trace her employment record, all the way back to 1900. And he was, I guess, I want to say surprise, but probably not too surprised to find out that from 1900 to 1907, Mary had worked at seven different households, where 22 people had been infected with the typhoid bacteria. Yes, in fact, one of them was Mr. Warren Bowens daughter, who had died from the disease. And so the Warrens, or the bow in Taos is actually where Mary was working when soccer found her. So he was super intent on getting samples of her urine and blood feces to test and see if she had typhoid because that was what he was suspecting. But she’s, like befuddled by this. She’s like, No, I’m fine. Like, I’m not sick at all. And she kind of was belligerent and was just like, No, leave me alone. I’m not giving you my fucking poop, you know?
Can you imagine? If you don’t know what an asymptomatic carrier is, and you’re totally healthy, as far as everyone can tell, and some dude is like, Excuse me, ma’am. Ma’am. Can I have samples? I need your feces. I need your feces and your BP please, please.
Oh, yeah, give it to him. You’re gonna be like, this guy is a fucking creep. What kind of fetish is this? I am not here for it, sir.
I’ll see if you still stand by that in a few paragraphs. So here’s a quote from Sabra. I had my first talk with Mary in the kitchen of his house, I was as diplomatic as possible, but I had to say I suspected her of making people sick. And that I wanted specimens of her urine, feces and blood. It did not take very long to react to this suggestion. She sees the carving fork and advanced in my direction. I pass rapidly down the long narrow Hall through the tall iron gate. And so to the sidewalk, I felt rather lucky to escape.
Isn’t that such a classy way to say it was crazy.
Right there, she kept the knife. Good. So he was a determined fellow probably was getting paid very well by men, that man that hired him. And so the following day, he waited and hit outside of the bone residents and like waited for her to leave. And then when he she did, he followed her like at a safe distance to her house,
making sure she didn’t have any silverware on her purse.
Right. He’s like, I need to know where she lives. That way he could know where she could be located like, at all times, basically. So he knew where she worked and where she lived. And then he left and came back with a doctor. So he comes back with Dr. Burt Raymond who blurb. And he was hoping that this doctor would be able to convince Mary that testing was the right thing to do. Like, okay, I brought a medical professional. Please, please give us a specimen. This did not work. Well, either. Mary, cursed at both men and chase them from her house. So home girls like a backup off?
I mean, I’m not gonna say on her side very long, because I know the story. But also, what year did you say this was early night?
It’s like 1907. Yeah,
yeah. At this point.
She’s an Irish immigrant.
Yeah. And also, couldn’t I just show up somewhere? I mean, not as a woman. But let’s say I was a white dude. And I’m like, Yes. Hello, my name is Bert Macklin to FBI and people. Believe me, like, I don’t need any form of identification. I can just say, I’m a doctor.
Oh, do you have identification. They hold up a piece of paper that has it says I’m a doctor. It
says Hello, my name is Bert Macklin. I get why she would be skeptical. And she was an immigrant and people were not very nice to Irish immigrants in 1907. Like, again, I’m not going to stay on her side. But for now, I’m like, you know, I kind of fucking get it. Yeah,
yeah. So at this point, he has tried twice to get samples from her and he’s basically like, this bitch is not going to give it up unless she’s legally required to
title of your sex tape.
Yeah. So he goes for the big guns and he goes to the New York City Health Department to talk to the commissioner Herman Biggs and Commissioner Biggs agreed with his theory about Mary being a healthy carrier of the typhoid bacteria, again, still just a theory at this point. And as a result, he suggested sending a female doctor Dr. Josephine Baker, to try to reason with Mary. Of course, this tactic didn’t work any better than the previous ones. She refused to be tested for the typhoid virus. And she made it very clear to Dr. Baker, that she would not do so without a fight. Yeah, so because they have the backing of the New York City Health Department. Dr. Baker comes back with five big ass policemen and an ambulance. Like, ah, bitch, we’re doing this.
You leave it to a lady to get shit done.
Yeah, okay, I can figure this out. You assholes.
As I fucking have to.
Right. So Dr. Baker describes the scene like this. Mary was on the lookout for us and she peered out from the front door, a long kitchen fork and her hand like a weapon as she lunged at me with the fork. I stepped back recoiled onto the policemen and so confused matters that by the time we got through the door Mary had disappeared. Disappear is to matter of fact a word she had completely vanished. It’s she’s the magician.
Yeah. Injured away. Yeah.
So Baker in the police searched the house. They seriously did not find her like she was nowhere to be seen. So
I’m just imagining her behind the curtain. You just see her little feet poking out. And she’s like, they’ll never find me here. She’s giggling, like playing hide and seek with a toddler. Exactly.
So finally, one of the policeman did his job and spotted a set of footprints in the corner yard that lead from the house to a chair place up against the fence. I feel like it’s like a very obvious scene, like there’s big footprints over to a chair next to a fence where she obviously
like there’s a muddy footprint on the chair.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, they went next door to the house that she had obviously jumped into the yard. And they went, you know, through the houses search both of the houses
behind their curtains
look behind all their curtains and chairs under their beds. Couldn’t find her. And then finally, one of the policeman spotted a tiny scrap of blue fabric caught in the door of a closet, under a stairway leading to the front door, and they force open the door to the closet. And according to Dr. Baker, she came out fighting and swearing. Yeah, both, both of which she could do with appalling efficiency and vigor.
I’m just imagining it. Harry Potter was set in Ireland.
Yes, under the stairwell comes out
if I can. So yeah, everybody’s just angry.
So many killing curses. So Dr. Baker continued on, I made another effort to talk to her sensibly and asked her again to let me have the specimens, but it was of no use. By that time, she was convinced that the law was persecuting her when she had done nothing wrong. And she was basically like, dude, I don’t have typhoid. I’m healthy as a horse. Like, leave me alone. That was not in Dr. Baker’s quote. That was those were my words. Dr. Baker did not say dude’s
Yeah, she might as well have might as well. And we get to editorialize. Because this is our goddamn podcast.
Yeah. So the policeman, lift her up, just like basically restrain her and are like you’re coming in with us, put her into the ambulance, and Dr. stopper, sat on her, like, on her all the way to the hospital to make sure that she did not try to get out. And one of the policemen said, quote, it was like being in a cage with an angry lion. Oh my God, this bitch was in tears.
It really is, like, I just I feel for these people, because I think they’re probably parents. Because I’ve definitely had to wrestle a small child into a vehicle or like their bedroom or into. It’s like when you change a diaper have a like, 15 month, 16 month old kid, and you’re just trying to pin him down and you’re like, it’s fucking good. It’s like a two person job for sure. Yeah, like I’ve had to, like sit on the legs while like, because otherwise you get kicked in the face.
Yeah, you just kicked right in the face. Yeah. So Mary was taken to the Willard Parker Hospital in New York. And there, they finally got their samples, and examined and surprise, surprise, the typhoid bacilli II was found in her stool. And so without any trial, or even a hearing of any sort, the health department transferred Mary to an isolation cottage, which was part of the riverside hospital on North brother island in the East River near the Bronx.
So an isolation cottage. It’s like our own little house.
Yes. On an island.
Which like, kind of sounds nice. Yeah, for a while. Long and not without Netflix. Right? If
I had criminal mind, yeah, easy. So just like that Mary Mallon went from being a fine cook, to a pariah to a prisoner of the state, all without any due process from the courts. yet. The New York City Health officials basically said that they had the power to detain her indefinitely, because she was a threat to the public health, you know? Yeah, so the health department confirmed their decision by pointing to the powers vested in them from sections 1169 and 1170 of the New York charter Which set quipped, the Board of Health shall use all reasonable means for ascertaining the existence and cause of disease or peril to life or health. And for averting the same throughout the city said board may remove or cause to be removed to a proper place to be by it designated. Any person sick with any contagious pestilence or infectious disease shall have exclusive charge and control of the hospitals for the treatment of such cases so,
so that we can lock you up if we think you’re a threat to society.
Yeah. lock you up. Yeah. Exactly. It’s like the Patriot Act. But for medicine, yeah, um, the only problem really was that Mary Mallon was not sick with any symptoms of the typhoid virus. And it still was not known at that time, or at the time that the statute was written that there were healthy carriers of diseases like no one knew that this even existed until now. Mary melon was actually the very first ever identified asymptomatic carrier of typhoid. And so some people did not really think that that statute should have been applied to her cuz it just seems like it’s just different when you’re not sick yourself. I guess though, I’m like, well, she still is infecting risking peril of life or health for others, so
she’s quite dangerous, because if somebody looks sick, you’re probably gonna stay away from them. You’re Like who? Yeah, but if if you’re just like, Yes, I would love some some ice cream. Great. Thank you healthy person. And she’s like, I won’t watch my goddamn hands. No,
yeah, look at these nails. There’s poop all up under the wraps, like,
this is unrelated but like the other than being a mom, which I don’t get paid for the most dangerous job I’ve ever had as being a nanny today. paid for, you know, and there was this one week I was in grad school. So I was already stressed and I was a nanny, and I got a sinus infection, and then the girls I nannied for got pinkeye. And then I got pinkeye. On top of the sinus infection I had both simultaneously is horrible. Yeah. And I remember talking with my brother and he, I told my pinkeye and he goes, who pooped in your pillow?
pooped on your pillow. Yeah, exactly. So Mary pleaded her case to be released from the hospital and she kind of was like, I’ve never tried typhoid in my life. I’ve always been super healthy. Why should I be banished like a leper and compelled to live in solitary confinement? With only a dog for companion? Like, what the fuck yeah,
man does not sound terrible.
Sounds like it’s my life right now. Set up a dog with three cats. Okay. So in 1907, after Mary had been in confinement for a year, she sued the health department. And for the and the reason she felt compelled to do this and like she has like a leg to stand on. It’s because for the previous year, while she was in confinement, she was sending stool samples to a private lab. Can you imagine she’s like, I need another arm below. Opening that letter, like, it’s like, Oh, another Mary Malin stool sample goddamnit. Yeah. And so apparently, all of them had come back negative. But the health department continued testing her as well over the course of her time, at the detention or at the cottage. And 120 of the 163 samples that they took came back positive. So it’s like, well, was your private hospital like doing what you asked them to do? Like, I don’t know. Like, there’s no way that but she didn’t have tight boy.
Yeah. And also like, you can get an expert to testify on pretty much anything on either side. If you love Well,
yeah. Well, and who’s saying she’s not on her little island, taking her dogs, feces and sending them in as a sample? Can you test these? You know, who knows? Yeah. So basically, they’re not sure which lab tests to believe so, before she had her day in court, she told the press she’s like, this contention that I’m a perpetual menace in the spread of typhoid is not true. My own doctor say I have no typhoid germs. I’m an innocent human being I’ve committed no crime, and I’m being treated like a criminal. It’s unjust, outrageous, and uncivilized. And it seems incredible that in a Christian community, a defenseless woman can be treated in this manner. How dare you I
Right. So she might have chosen this time as a time to launch this lawsuit. Because her case was actually taken up by newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. And so he was wants to have said it’s like, known of him that he was very into a good story. I mean, obviously, he ran a newspaper. But so he demanded that every story in his paper should cause the reader to rise up from their seat and cry. Good God. He was a little bit of a drama queen. Yeah, real definitely. At some point, and so, he was such an influencer, old timey influencer. And you know, it was his newspaper, The New York American that first published Mary mountain story in 1909. And so, what I didn’t mention before when I said that her case was taken up by him, what I mean is that he paid her legal bills. This is probably why she’s like, Okay, well, I have the backing to get a good lawyer now and tax people the court. His support was, of course, something of like a double edged sword for her though, because the publicity he generated, got her this money to hire a lawyer. And he even paid the legal bills. Because he, it was thought that he did this a lot with cases that would provide good copy for his newspaper, he be like, yeah, let’s pay their legal bills and get a good fight going or whatever. But on the other hand, his reporters coined the nickname typhoid Mary, which stuck with her for the rest of her life. And so it was a little bit of like, No, no, could be good. Could be bad. Yeah. So despite her, please, the presiding judge in the case ruled in favor of the health department. And the person now called typhoid Mary in the press, was remanded to the custody of the Board of Health. So Mary goes back to her little cottage on North brother Island, where her dog probably was, like, super happy to see her. And at this point, it kind of looked like Mary might be set to spend the rest of her life in that little coverage. But in February of 1910, so a few months later, and like kind of an astounding turn of events, the new a new health commissioner was appointed. And this guy inexplicably, it was like, let her out, like, release her immediately. And the only stipulation that he gave her was that she had to sign an affidavit stating that she would change her occupation that of a cook, and give assurance by the affidavit, that she will, upon her release, take hygenic precautions as well as protect those with whom she comes in contact from the infection. So basically, like, get a different job and start washing your fucking hands. Yeah.
Which honestly, legit, right there.
And so that is why everything from here on out, makes her a bad person. And
this is where we stop signing with her.
Yes, exactly. So she agrees, she signs it, and she set free after almost four years of confinement. So could have been a happy ending for everyone if she would have stuck to what she signed, stuck to the guidelines that she signed an affidavit. And for a while, she did keep up her part of the deal. So she worked first at a hotel in Southampton. And in at the Huntington, a fashionable Hotel in New Jersey, a hospital in New Jersey. And everywhere she went cases of typhoid did follow her. So she wasn’t a cook in any of these places. So there’s not really necessarily a record of them. But there is some has, I guess there’s some historical record because I found it but like, there’s a few little things that are are following her around with the typhoid situation. So there was one man for example, that she mixed up like a homing remedy for indigestion. For him, like I don’t know if he was someone at the hotel she worked at or something like that. And he had to be taken to the hospital because he had typhoid fever. So it’s like, there are little things here and there, but not a ton. And so then it’s not really clear. But sometime in 1914, Mary basically said, fuck this noise and decided to go back to working as a cook. So unfortunately, in addition to that, she did not improve her hand cleaning skills and like, continue to not wash your hands essentially. And so she was like taking on new work as a cook under a different name. And then the second someone would get sick, she would leave and find a new job under another different name. So I’m like Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. Exactly, exactly. So it was in January of 1915. Here’s one that I’m like you used to be a bit the Sloan maternity hospital. In Manhattan, suffered a typhoid fever outbreak where 25 people became ill and two of them died. And guess who the newly hired cook for the facility was?
It was married. It was typhoid Mary spoiler alert.
She was working under a fictitious name. But they finally caught up to her and realized that she had started working as a cook again, because this was such a big outbreak like it’s at a fucking hospital. What do you expect that they’re not going to be like, hold up? What’s going on?
And why do they not have enforcement of this? I mean, even granted, this is you know, recent. But even at McDonald’s, he’ll go in and it’ll be like employees must wash their hands before returning to work. This is a mother hospital. I know your hands.
I know. It just takes me back to my story about the doctor robert. Lipton, Lipton. God, you’re good. Where they just didn’t even realize that washing your hands could get rid of bacteria, like surgeons were not doing it. They were wearing the blood on their apron. Yeah, I’m a badass. Look how much blood is on me. So after this public opinion, had been in her favor before it was not anymore. Now people are like, what the fuck like, yeah, you know what you are now and you are still define the health department working as a cook, not using proper hygiene techniques. Like what the hell yeah, she is not only serving contaminated foods still, but now she’s serving it to pregnant women. Like it’s not okay. And then the fact that she was using fictitious names adds like this second level to it where it’s like, you know, you’re doing something wrong. Whoa, like, Don’t tell me you just didn’t know.
You had to hide it. You did it on purpose.
Exactly. So she was again shipped off to North brother island to the same college. She had occupied like Mmm hmm. And her second and last visit to this island lasted 23 years until her death. So she lived the rest of her life in isolation. Essentially. She did become a hospital helper while she was on the island. But she was not allowed to touch or be near any food served to other people. Good. Yeah. It is such she became a minor celebrity and was often interviewed by enterprising journalists. But she was not allowed to even offer them a glass of water. Basically, they were like, no, like, we’ve got ubitx that’s happening again. Yeah, good. So while she was there for her second and final visit, she did appeal her sentence. And I do have I do have a letter that she wrote while she was in isolation. I might skip through some of it because it’s kind of long. But so and remember at the beginning where that guy was like she had really good handwriting, so I’m like picturing this and really good handwriting. Oh, yeah. So she says in reply to Dr. Park of the Board of Health, I will state that I am not segregated with the typhoid patients. There is nobody on this island that has typhoid. There was never any effort by the board authority to do anything for me accepting to cast me on the island and keep me a prisoner without being sick, nor needing medical treatment. When I first came here, they took two blood cultures and feces went down three times per week, say Monday, Wednesday and Friday respectively, until the latter part of June. After that they only got the feces once a week, which was on Wednesday. Now they have given me a record for nearly a year for three times a week. I don’t know she’s bitching about how often they’re coming to tinker, poop.
Stop making me poop in a bag. I don’t like it.
I’m not regular enough for this.
Giving me nothing but prunes. Non Stop brood. They’re like, well, it’s Monday. You know what that means? Get up.
When I first came here, I was so nervous and almost prostrated with grief in trouble. My eyes began to twitch and the left eyelid became paralyzed and would not move. It remained in that condition for six months. There was an eye specialist who visited the island three or four times a week and he was never able, he was never asked to visit me. I did not even get a cover for my I had to hold my hand on it whilst going about my day and at night, tie a bandage on it. It’s like at least
you could not touch anyone’s food if your hands was otherwise occupied. But also, if you’re not washing your hands probably don’t touch your eyes.
Yeah, very true. She had pinkeye constantly
who pooped in her pillow. Damnit fluffy.
That’s just the dog is like what I’m doing. So in December, she continues in December when Dr. Wilson took charge, he came to me and I told him about it. He said that was news to him, and then he would send me his electric battery. I don’t know what that means, but he never sent it.
However, oh, we know what that means. She’s
got He’s like, this will help. Oh, wait, that actually was a treatment for a while. Maybe that is it?
She says, however, my I got better thanks to the Almighty God and no thanks to the medical staff. Oh, my God,
God has cure my buttholle! my eyes and my butthole. oh my gosh, so sorry, I’m going to hell in a handbasket for this one.
When in January 1908, they were about to just discharged me. The resident physician came to me and asked me where I was going when I got out of there. And naturally, I said to New York, so there was a stop put to my getting out of here. Then the supervising nurse told me I was a hopeless cause. And if I’d write to Dr. Darlington and tell him I’d go to my sister’s in Connecticut, I’d get out but I have no sister in that state or any other and then in April, a friend of mine went to Dr. Darlington and asked him when I was going to get away. And he replied, that woman’s all right now and she’s a very expensive woman, but I cannot let her go myself. The board has to come around later and ask again. And then when he did Dr. Darlington told this man, I have nothing more to do with this woman and redirected him to doctors study for him. They’re just passed on air from Don Yeah,
get like go bug doctor. Steady man. Like go.
Yeah, exactly says Dr. Sadie Ford said go ask Mary Mallon. to have her the operation performed to have her gallbladder removed, because at this point, they’re starting to find that that’s where the typhoid lives. And he said, I’ll have the best surgeon in town do the cutting. And Mary, this is back to her letter. She said no, no knife will be put on me. I’ll have nothing the matter with my gallbladder that rhymed. So Dr. Wilson asked me the same question. I also told him no. And then he replied, it might not do you any good anyway.
We will, we will sew your butthole shut.
Oh, God. There was a visiting doctor who came here in October. He took quite an interest in me. He really thought I liked it here that I didn’t want my freedom. He asked me if I’d take some medicine if he brought it to me. And I said I would so he brought me some anti auto talks, and some pills. Then Dr. Wilson had already ordered me brewers yeast. At first I would not take it for I’m a little afraid of the people. And I have a good right for when I came to the department. They said they were in my intestinal track. She’s a mess. Okay. Later another said they were in the muscles of my bowels and later they thought the gallbladder so she’s basically like these fools don’t know shit. They don’t even know where it is in my body. And then she continues and finishes I’ve been a peep show for everybody. Even the interns have come to see me and asked about the facts already known to the whole wide world. The tuberculosis men would say there she is the kidnapped woman. Yeah. Dr. Park has had me illustrated in Chicago, which is true. There was this poster of typhoid Mary and it was like a warning to everyone that they like published in the newspaper of like, don’t be like her. I became super famous. And he’s he she finishes. I wonder how Dr. William Park would like to be insulted and put in the journal and call him or his wife, typhoid William. Burn. So she was not happy. But as I said, she lived the rest of her days off in the island until 1932 when she suffered a severe stroke which left her partially paralyzed and not capable of working in any capacity. At this point, she was transferred from her cottage to a bed in the children’s ward of a hospital, which I thought was strange. Like why Why are you putting here by the most vulnerable people? What if she goes in and sticks her finger in all their jello? Like she might she’s kind of a little bit vindictive. I
finally I can touch everyone’s. Oh, I will put my fingers and all the jello in butthole jello. Oh my gosh.
So Mary melon died six years later on November 11 1938. She was 69 years old, and autopsy found evidence of live typhoid bacteria in Mary’s gallbladder.
And she had so much typhoid in there I am standing.
In a classic case of overkill. The powers in charge of the hospital decided that Mary’s body needed to be destroyed in order to destroy all traces of the bacteria. So they cremated her immediately. her ashes were buried at St. Raymond’s Cemetery in the Bronx under a headstone that read Jesus mercy. Oh my god, the total number of typhoid cases traced to Mary Mallon was 53, with three deaths, although it is assumed there were many, not deaths necessary, but just many more people who got typhoid from her. And that is the story of typhoid Mary. Mary Mallon,
good job. Fine is not the right word. It’s kind of fun. Kind of a fun episode, though. We’re like, let’s talk about some ladies and some horrible shit.
As you were talking, I just kept thinking, like, we do this all the time. But like your story was such a like, this young girl who came over to America and like, then did all this stuff. That was bad one stop doing it’s like, she went to jail. And then she came out was like, Nope, I’m still gonna bootleg and marry like, went to the island and came out was like, Nope, I’m still gonna cook. And yeah, yeah, um, but I did see a lot of articles. And I thought about including some of this, but it was starting to get so long. There’s a lot of articles out there about whether or not she was a victim or a villain, you know, if her civil rights were? What am I trying to say?
Like, if they didn’t respect violated?
Yeah, I’ve heard civil rights were violated because of that, like just taking her to the silent and taking, like, should she have had to have been forced not to live her life because of her asymptomatic sickness. And it’s funny, because I’m not sure how I would have answered that a couple years ago. I mean, I do kind of think, like, I don’t think she should have been taken to the island and just isolated forever. But at the same time, the whole like going back and still cooking for people and getting people sick and changing your name. So you could continue cooking, when you know, like, and that was all a money thing. Like she did it because she could make more money as a cook. And she didn’t want to keep being a laundress or whatever. So, to me, that does seem criminal. And I even feel that way a little bit about the COVID stuff where it’s like, Listen, I know you might have no symptoms. But what if you get someone else sick? who dies? Like, do you really want that on your shoulders? So yeah, I can almost like understand it more. Now. Why? It’s like, No, you can’t just be an asymptomatic carrier. I’d be like, worryfree because of it.
Well, it’s that whole thing of like, shika sobin a cup. Just wash your hands. Yeah. And it’s like wear gloves. You know, like, you want things to go back to wear mask. Get your vaccine. Wash your goddamn hands.
Wash your damn hands. Don’t put poop on your hands.
Put poop. Don’t poop on the pillow. That’s the moral of this story. Anyhow, exactly. That’s a long one. But it was fun. Thanks for sticking out with us. Yeah, where to find us on the social medias were horrible history pad, Instagram and Tiktok.
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