Home » Episodes » Episode 28 – Rome, Italy & Kingston, Australia (I’m the Captain Now)

We’re going back, baby – waaaay back to the BC era – when Rachel tells us about the life and death of Julius Caesar. Then, Emily covers the Maria Shipwreck and massacre – a lose-lose situation for Australian shipwreckees and aboriginals. Hopefully, you’re horrified.

Content/Trigger Warnings: gruesome content, reference to suicide


Rachel 0:14
Hi, welcome to Horrible History. I’m Rachel Everett-Lozon.

Emily 0:17
And I’m Emily Barlean. How are you doing?

Rachel 0:20
You know, I’m doing it. I’m doing. We’re squeezing in double recordings. So this will come out on the 27th. of May. But we are recording way earlier because we I’m planning my visit to, to see Emily.

Emily 0:38
This will come out on the 27th. And then two days later, you’ll be here will be Yeah. So I

Rachel 0:44
will be listening to my own podcast I’m playing. So. Gosh, that’s amazing. I had,

Emily 0:50
I had dinner with Britt, one of our loyal listeners tonight nights ago, I guess. And she’s so funny. She came in and she was like, like a creep. I was listening to you on the way to dinner with you. And then afterwards, she texts me and she was like, Well, I’m listening to you again. It’s like it’s bookends it. That’s not a crew. That is BFF status.

Rachel 1:15
I love that says president of our fan club. I can’t wait to meet her in the flesh. Yes, yes. So yeah, we are doing it. We are busy. And tonight. We’re going to Rome. Boom.

Emily 1:31
I love Rome.

Rachel 1:33
I know. I’m stoked. Emily, obviously, I know that you’ve been there. And you know that I haven’t. But I’ve wanted to go ever since Mary Kate and Ashley did in the early. So solid, realist

Emily 1:46
solid reason.

Rachel 1:49
So obviously, well first, let me ask you, what’s your favorite thing that you saw?

Emily 1:54
Oh, well, I think that the Colosseum was a far my favorite thing just strictly because it’s one of those moments where you’re standing in this place that you’ve seen in movies and on TV and in books. And it’s it’s one of those just like grand moments where you’re like, holy shit, like I’m standing here, you know, and you can think like, wow, the history that happened here and the gladiators that fought fucking lions in this exact spot, it is overwhelming to think about it being a real place where you’re standing. And on top of that, I also really really really enjoyed every single gelato shop that we stopped at because everything was stopped every single. There’s nothing like Italian gelato. I’ve never had anything as good ice cream wise since Yeah.

Rachel 2:50
God, I want that in my mouth right now.

Emily 2:52
Yeah. And pasta, obviously.

Rachel 2:55
Yes. And if we were to go to Rome, like we’d need, I would want to spend at least a week in that city. I want to go full tourist. I need to see the Colosseum, the Sistine Chapel, St. Peter’s Basilica, all the beautiful architecture and not close it all out. And since I honestly I was looking at everything I could do and and I couldn’t pick the places we would go and I think I’d either need you as a tour guide, or I’d need to pay somebody else to help me actual tour guide. Yes, yeah. So I did a little TripAdvisor and to see what kind of tours there are nice. There is a tipsy tour of room, which is a walking tour where we drink like the locals and hear about the history of places like the Trevi Fountain, the Pantheon and the Piazza Navona. Yeah. And of course, there are pizza making classes and pasta making classes and gelato, making classes and so many tours. So of course, one of the tours that caught my eye is called a love and sex history tour of ancient Rome. Oh, there is no information on the content. It’s just like, like intriguing come if you dare. But they do have a map and they they walk all over the place and it’s only 50 bucks a person I think sounds

Emily 4:13
worth it just to even like know more about what the hell they’re talking about. I would love a pasta making class though, guys. sounds incredible. I had so much pasta in Rome. Oh my god, inside their pasta. It’s just better. Like the quality of their fish is like MC and real and so good. And also I love I love European dining. Because it’s not like America where it’s like, turn they want to turn people over so they can get more people in and you know, make more money. You go in and they see you and it’s kind of just like they leave you

Rachel 4:50
Yeah, you order like stay as long as you want to. Yeah,

Emily 4:53
they seemed. We kind of finished up fast and we’re, you know, ready for our check and we Ask for our trek and they were almost like put off like, what? Like you’re ready. Already? Where are you going? So, man, also sorry, one more anecdote

Rachel 5:09

Emily 5:12
that was the place we got in. So I traveled with my friend from college years ago. And we got into Rome. Late at night late, late, our plane landed, it was like the red eye. And so we were going to walk to the hostel we’re staying at, but it was really late. And we’re like, yeah, this is how you get murdered. Right? And so we got in this taxi. And the taxi driver was nuts. Like, he was driving so fucking fast through the streets of Rome. And he was going down the streets. He’s like, it’s a shortcut. And he’d go down the streets that were like, really narrow, like almost like a one way and I swear, we almost clipped like multiple mirrors as we’re driving down this Oh my God. And he like went through several red stoplights. He would turn around and be like, no police. No, stop and just keep going. No, we were like, no,

Rachel 6:06
we’re gonna die. We’re gonna die. And you’re like, stop turning around and looking at us. Fucking road.

Emily 6:13
There’s barely room on this stream. So we survived.

Rachel 6:19
I’m glad. Glad. Um, so like I said, I I said there was a love and sex history tour of ancient Rome. And speaking of ancient Rome, guess where we’re going today? ancient Rome, Rome. Okay, but first, before we get way back, I’m talking BC. Whoa, we’re gonna take a little stop. Okay, before Mary Kate and Ashley. We’re going to just stop the time machine for a hot second 1599 when William Shakespeare wrote the famous line at two per day as Julius Caesar his last words, and today, I’m going to talk about how that really went down. While I tell you all about the life and assassination of Julius Caesar. Holy

Emily 7:02
shit, that is incredibly

Rachel 7:05
scary fun. I’m so excited. What a good day apologize. Thank you. Thank you. I apologize in advance for any mispronunciations. I’ll do my best. Yeah. Okay. Gaius Julius Caesar, was born on around July 13th 100 BC, he traced his bloodlines to the literal beginning of Rome, claiming to be a descendant of Venus, like the Goddess, like from God, like from Venus, like Hercules or something.

Emily 7:38
And all but I heard that men are from Mars and women are from Venus. So

Rachel 7:45
and it’s interesting that he claimed this because his family was not incredibly wealthy, or even particularly politically influential. Caesar’s father also named Gaius Julius Caesar, there’s gonna be a lot of recycled names in this story stand up. Yeah, died suddenly in 85 BC. So at the ripe old age of 16, Caesar became the head of the household. This was not a great time politically in ancient Rome, because there was a civil war between Caesar’s uncle, Gaius Marius and the sitting Roman ruler, Lucius Cornelius Sela. So I’m not going to go into crazy detail about this war. But basically, it didn’t go great for the diocese because Marius lost and ended up banished to Africa. Caesar, who had gotten married in 84 bc to Cornelia, the daughter of one of Marius his allies, was ordered by sulla to get divorced. Hmm. So basically, at this point, Caesar is like, probably not super politically influential, but influential enough. And he had aligned with his uncle who then lost the Civil War. So, um, Salah was like, Fuck you, bro. Yeah, I get divorced. I know exactly sure why. Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if it was because like, Oh, it’s because it Cornelia was the daughter of one of Marius his allies. So he’s like, you can’t be married to her. She supported my my enemies and you have to be aligned with me.

Emily 9:23
Also, you’re banished and she’s not.

Rachel 9:25
Well, and yeah, so that’s pretty much what he did. He’s like, I’m gonna fucking be an issue. So Cesar goes into hiding, and I’m not sure if his wife and at this point he’s got a daughter named Julia. I don’t know if they go with him or not. But somehow Caesar family convinces Sela to spare Caesars life, but he’s like, fine, fine, I’ll let him live but he can’t have his inheritance anymore. Oh, no money. Um, so Caesar ends up leaving Rome, not vanish just leaving Rome. He joined the army and earned the Civic crown. For his courage in battle, and he came back to Rome as a prosecutor after Sella died in 70 BC, so he just waited about He’s like, okay, eventually you’re going to die. Everybody’s gonna forget all about this and I’ll get my heritage back. No big deal. Oh

Emily 10:15
gosh. I feel like he was a really young prosecutor. Yeah. 78 Yeah, it would have been What? 22 bucks? Yeah.

Rachel 10:22
Uh huh. Yeah, man, and he lives a decently long life, even considering he was murdered, like you want to live quite a bit longer. But I mean, spoilers. So if you don’t know that he dies at the end of the play Julius Caesar, like, and also in real life. I don’t. I’m sorry. Here. You need to brush up a little bit on your history.

Emily 10:49
Also, Bruce Willis was dead at the end of six.

Rachel 10:52
watts Euler. How fucking dare you

Emily 10:55
spoilers from 1995 or whenever?

Rachel 11:00
99? I don’t know. Okay. Three years later, Caesar was traveling via the Aegean Sea to Rhodes which is in Greece, to study philosophy, and oratory, just just like speaking legal shit, I don’t know. But he was captured by pirates. This guy cannot catch a fucking break in his life. And as we know, not so much at the end of his life, either, but Caesar is known for being a really good speaker. He’s super charming. And so the pirates are chartered by him. And he acts more like a leader than a captive.

Emily 11:39
So they turn the boat over to him. They’re like, you’re the captain now.

Rachel 11:44
Essentially, he’s like, Look, you guys don’t want to kill me. My family’s gonna pay you a ransom. How about you just take me back to where I need to go. I’ll get you the money. No big deal. And that’s what happened. So see your family pays his ransom. And then the pirates were all Thanks, bro. No need to kill you now. But in one of the pettiest moves I’ve heard in a long while suzer hired a private fleet of ships to hunt down these pirates and crucify them

Emily 12:17
for their bribes. Hey, love crucifying people doesn’t he

Rachel 12:21
does. Yeah, he Cesar is a petty bitch. And we’ll go on to see that throughout the story.

Emily 12:29
I like how he he’s like, go get my ransom money. Have I lost my inheritance?

Rachel 12:39
crimes against humanity. Sorry. It’s Yeah. And people people love it. Like I said, He’s really trying. He’s a good speaker. He fucking survived pirates. He’s a big deal. So he’s like, why not go

Emily 12:52
into politics? And I’m a great speaker. This sounds like everything’s aligning.

Rachel 12:57
Mm hmm. The stars of Venus sorry. First he becomes military Tribune, which is essentially a stepping stone to the Senate. In 16 nine bc he becomes Questor, which is just another name for a public official. Then big bummer. His wife Cornelia dies. But that’s where a couple of years later in 67 bc Caesar marries Pompei, who is one of selas granddaughters At first I thought this was also a petty move like Haha, Salah I’m gonna marry your granddaughter because Salah was the one who told him he had to divorce

Emily 13:37
phrases they make up at

Rachel 13:39
some point no, Sella died. So he waited them out. Sella died and then he’s like, Fuck your granddaughter

Emily 13:46
past you miss petty.

Rachel 13:51
I mean, it’s a little petty. But I think it was probably mostly to form an alliance with you know, people who supported Sela and maybe didn’t so much support Marius, who was Caesar’s uncle, which is like less fun, but politically important, mu whatever. So, in 65 BC, he becomes a dial, which is a magistrate. So he starts producing lavish games in the Circus Maximus things like chariot races, things like that. And though Roman people eat this up, of course, AJ, what the fuck else are you willing to do in ancient Rome?

Emily 14:34
They love that shit over there.

Rachel 14:37
They love it. There’s nothing else to do. It’s like gladiators and fucking horse races.

Emily 14:42
They literally would release a lion in the Coliseum and make someone fight. It’s like, yeah, people were vicious back back.

Rachel 14:53
And he might have been doing that too. When they’re all lavish games. I’m like, what does that mean? who’s dying? I don’t know exactly means, but producing this bunch. It put him into very heavy debt. He had to pay for it. I thought it was like a political statement I hate. I think he put bro into debt. Oh, not just him all around. Yeah. So in 63 bc regardless of the debt because people love him, Caesar has elected pontifex Maximus, which means he’s the head of principal College of priests. There is no separation of church and state. He’s interested, Bruce.

Emily 15:38
I want that on my business card. That sounds awesome. What was it again?

Rachel 15:41
Right. pontifex Maximus sound

Emily 15:44
effects Maximus sound? Yeah. So

Rachel 15:46
he’s like, I don’t know if it was like the pope because it just said the head of the principal intelligence priests. So I’m like, maybe maybe he’s kind of the pope is she’s religious authority? I don’t know. No separation of church and state.

Emily 16:00
Okay, so yeah, he’s in charge of the church and the state at this point.

Rachel 16:04
Correct? Yeah. He’s up there in the state and in the church. And yeah, he’s not the head guy. But he’s kind of moving up the ranks. I did like a brief Google on all of the political positions that he held. But I didn’t go super into it. Because I’m sure people find it interesting. It’s not incredibly relevant to where I’m going with the story, but still wanted to mention it. In 62 BC, there’s a bit of a scandal. Some politician disguised himself as a woman and snuck into a sacred women’s festival that campaign was hosting for some research, or for some reason that I didn’t really research. This was a huge fucking deal. Like, that’s a grant. That’s why dad and Caesar divorce prom. heya. Because of it, he blames her.

Emily 16:55
For someone else sneaking into. Yeah, like, Oh, you don’t have a tight enough ship? That you let someone in

Rachel 17:03
something like that. Yeah, like I didn’t really understand it. I’m gonna guess you just didn’t like her that much. and was like, finally a divorce, sir. Fuck you. Sela

Emily 17:14
I wonder what that was? Oh, yes. secret. It’s like they get to it’s just where they get together and talk about their boyfriends like, Oh my god,

Rachel 17:22
it’s a slumber party. Yeah, I don’t know. And unfortunately and maybe you know better historians than me who don’t use like history that calm is their main source can probably it’s a valid source back up. Thank you. Thank you. But I don’t understand what happened. So if you do shoot us an email horrible history podcast@gmail.com educate us. Okay, so you divorce has been paying 62. But never you worry, because he rebounds, not romantic this time. But a year later, Cesar use his military and political knowledge to become the governor of Spain. Basically, I know Spain and Italy not the same place. But ancient Rome was like fuck your country barriers we come in. we seize. I’m the governor now pitches that

Emily 18:17
I literally just keep picturing that Tom Hanks movie with the guy who’s like, I’m the captain. Now look at me. Like he’s that’s what it is. Seriously. He did that to the pirates. And now he’s doing that to the country of Spain. Yeah.

Rachel 18:30
And so he also had some help from the British man in Rome, Marcus Linnaeus, crassus, who was kind of financing him and a lot of really wealthy influential people in Rome, like what Caesar was doing. Good speaker, great military General, very, very cunning people like Caesar real Hitler type, if you will, real Hitler type, if you will, only

Emily 18:54
for Hitler was a real Caesar type maybe.

Rachel 18:58
Yeah. And Hitler is maybe like, in my opinion, not as bad because he doesn’t separate an entire group of people based on their ethnic background and decide that they should die.

Emily 19:08
I mean, Caesar is not as bad.

Rachel 19:10
Yeah. Did I say Hitler?

Emily 19:11
You said Hitler. I’m like, No, Hitler’s as bad now.

Rachel 19:15
I’m so sorry. You know, I met Caesar. Yeah, it was like, Oh, okay. No, thank you. No, thank you. Learned my brain. Okay. Okay. So Caesar finally gets elected to senior Roman console in 59 BC, which is pretty high up in the ranks. And I think he’s still governors. Well, side job, you know, just side hustle. Governor’s Hey, he marries off his daughter Julia to Pompei. So he forms this alliance with crassus, who’s the rich guy and pay so the These three powerful dudes are referred to as the first triumvirate. And they had control over Rome pretty quickly.

Emily 20:09
Yeah, I would venture to guess I thought Pompei was the lady who was married to

Rachel 20:14
pump a pump pays a dude, pay as a lady.

Emily 20:18
Yeah. Goddamnit it’s confusing. There’s Julius and Julia Pompei, Pompei, like and that doesn’t change them different names people.

Rachel 20:26
Yeah, they’re all when we get to what happened with Cleopatra, all the men in the family have the same name, the exact same name. Okay. So there’s a lot of political shit that happens for Caesar over the next decade ish that I’m going to go over pretty quickly. So he becomes governor of gal, which is I might not be pronouncing right but it’s essentially northern and central Europe now. And he commands an army. Doing this he gets a reputation for being incredibly ruthless as an army commander. Then he builds a bridge into Germanic territories, and then heads on over to Britain and gets more military success over there. That throws off the dynamic in the first triumvirate because Pompei starts to get really jealous, and that strange the relationship between Pohnpei and crassus. So basically, Caesar becoming so powerful and such a great military leader is throwing the balance of power out of whack. jealousy. Mm hmm. Plus, with Caesar conquering gal, Roman politics are getting more and more volatile, and Pompei is still in Rome trying to play damage control. He’s like fuck Caesar stop gaining access to other territories when we don’t even have our local shed under control. Then in 54 BC, Julia who remember is Caesar’s daughter and Pompei. His wife dies. Oh, so she dies. I don’t know what illness like nothing sinister, okay. People just die. You’d have a cold dead leprosy like I don’t like a toenail hanging dead dead. So in 53, do you see Pompei is like fuck you bro. And he switches his Alliance from Caesar to Caesars opponents and he tells Caesar he needs to give up his army and gal and come back to Rome and Caesars owl fuck me No, fuck you bro. And instead sends his army army into Rome. He’s not coming back he says army into Rome and creates a civil war and pays all Oh shit.

Emily 22:33
You think you’re the daddy I’m still your father in law. Even though my daughter I’m the daddy

Rachel 22:38
daddy. And pump is like oh shit and Caesars army. And so Pompei runs, he leaves around and Caesar’s armies like that so fast. And they chase him like fucking Where in the World is Carmen San Diego, to to to to to Spain and then to Greece and eventually to Egypt. So Pompeii is going all over the place. Meanwhile, in Egypt, Ptolemy the eighth which by the way, Ptolemy is the name of every single man and clear Patrick’s family. he’s a he’s a child, Cesar this guy. I think he’s like 10 ish years old. At this point nine, maybe he doesn’t want Caesar to come and invade and his advisors like don’t you let that conqueror over here? I’ll take over. So he’s he has Pompei killed Ptolemy does in 48 BC.

Emily 23:30
Can you imagine being a 10 year old and being like, Yes, I would like to make this massive decision to assassinate a poor figure. I was still like, playing Monopoly with my brain out

Rachel 23:43
of like, like being fucking Monopoly board, like

Emily 23:46
collecting Beanie Babies and making them have meat out there because that’s how I played with dolls.

Rachel 23:52
I had little business meetings. They’re sitting there like, this could have been an email.

Emily 23:57
Literally, I would want to haul up that’s gonna fit me well. My mom, I would like keep notes from the meetings and like one of them was in charge. And yeah, it was.

Rachel 24:08
I was a strange child. You’re doing that. And I’m like hiding in my bedroom making my Barbies back. Yeah, we were the same. Sorry, mom. Everybody did. So yeah, I think this 10 year old had a bunch of advisors. They really kind of favored him over his older sister Cleopatra, who was about 18 at the time. Let’s just get that’s why they didn’t like her because, yeah, well, and we’ll get into it.

Emily 24:38
So she was a woman before her time.

Rachel 24:41
She absolutely was. And this is ancient Rome. So it’s not like Ptolemy can call Caesar and tell him not to come because Pompeii is dead. So when Caesar shows up in Egypt, Ptolemy gives him Pompei severed head, you know, like it like a gift. Question mark.

Emily 25:01
I just for some reason pictured him with a silver platter. whips it off. I

Rachel 25:10
don’t know why. Yeah, um, and Caesars like, hey, thanks, child. Pharaoh Ptolemy.

Emily 25:17
He’s like, your small.

Rachel 25:19
You’re teeny. It wasn’t enough for talent. I cannot get his name right? Because it’s, it’s patala me is what it looks like but the actual Yeah, exactly putera dactyl me it wasn’t enough for Ptolemy to earn Caesars favor long term, because he was battling his co region slash sister Cleopatra for power. And Cleopatra does not have a ton of favor with the Egyptian people at this time. I’ll get more into it in happy hour for for the patrons. But for people who aren’t basically Cleopatra had been exiled, I believe to Syria, but I don’t know for on the top of my head but she she snuck back into Egypt and like snuck in to get a meeting with Cesar to try and convince him to help her regain power as the region to help her gain favorite with the people

Emily 26:21
gain and our back from her brother,

Rachel 26:23
her kid Rach okay. Yeah, who had been advised basically to get rid of her. And if you’ll remember, Cesar is incredibly, you know, he’s a great speaker, people like him, he can convince anyone to do pretty much anything. And also, Cleopatra is described in the same way. She is very much she’s a good speaker. She is. She’s just probably, Emily is making tic jokes. And I was thinking of the word effervescence. They were very different phases. Big. Well, she’s very, she knows like nine different languages. She’s super educated. She’s very smart. She’s very quick witted. And of course, she’s beautiful. But she’s, she is a badass. And Cesar is into her.

Emily 27:13
I saw her that kind of power like, Yeah, I don’t feel like there’s anyone that he would want to be with other than her. Mm hmm.

Rachel 27:21
Right. Right. And so they have an affair. Which is not really I mean, neither of them are married at the time, but

Emily 27:29
you’re having such a marriage and with someone from

Rachel 27:32
your country. Yeah, that’s what it is, is she’s Egyptian, and he is Roman, but he helps her through this affair, overthrow Ptolemy, and he makes her for a hot minute, the sole ruler of Egypt. And they ended up having a son together, also named Ptolemy the 15th. Lord Caesar, so it’s Ptolemy the 15th. Caesar, but he’s known by to say, by a Syrian, which means little Caesar, not the pizza, pizza pizza.

Emily 28:03
And also isn’t necessary and like the kind of like for babies. Yeah, little

Rachel 28:07
c section. Yeah, it’ll. It’s Yeah. So Syria,

Emily 28:12
cuz you’re birthing a little baby. It’s like little C’s

Rachel 28:16
little sensor. Yeah, Little Prince, pizza pizza. But and so after she gives birth to Syria, he becomes her co region. So she’s like, really Egypt. But with a baby. I don’t know why they don’t just let her do it herself. But she always has a cold region.

Emily 28:31
Like she has to have a man even if it’s literally an infant.

Rachel 28:35
Yeah. So that’s what it is. It’s Ptolemy gets overthrown. And I think he ends up with, he ends up swimming with the fishes somewhere. I think like they find his body somewhere. I don’t remember if I get into it, but I read it. And then she has another brother, also named Ptolemy. So this is Tommy. Yes. So this is Tommy the eighth. And then I think the other one was like Ptolemy the 13th. I don’t know. I will know during happy hour because I wrote it there. It doesn’t matter. But she’s she’s co ruling with a different little brother. And then eventually she ends up co rolling with cesarean. So it seemed like I said, so many recycled names so much that’s like kind of relevant but not relevant enough. And it’s, there’s also, believe it or not, not a ton of information. There’s not one full contemporary story on Cleopatra’s wife, so it’s a little fishy there too. But it does seem like Caesar was pretty happy, helping Cleopatra gain more power in Egypt. And we know that Caesar is also still incredibly petty. So even though you know he and Cleopatra just had a baby, he’s pretty happy with her. He he leaves and he keeps traveling the world killing enemies and Pompei his remaining supporters in Spain Africa and the Middle East. He’s going all over the place. He’s like, Listen, babe,

Emily 30:04
I got business and she’s like, I get it.

Rachel 30:07
She does. She is just like, I’m gonna take care of this baby. I’m gonna roll Egypt and it’s gonna be awesome. And she fucking does. So she’s fine. That’s that’s my editorializing, but I don’t picture her like crying for Caesar. You don’t need no man. I think she loved him. But I think she was like, Okay, cool. See you later, dude, you gotta get. So in 46 BC, Caesar becomes dictator of Rome, which from what I was reading almost sounds like an elected position. Because it was a set term of 10 years. So it was like your dictator, kind of like your president for four years. So your dictator for 10 years. Obviously, this infuriates all of his political opponents, which is important to remember for the eventual coup. Um, but also, Caesar did some really good things for the regular people of Rome, aka like the lower and middle classes, people who weren’t in the Senate and the upper echelon of Rome. And some of the reforms that he needed were really drastic at the time. Like he increased the size of the Senate to increase representation. He supported military veterans, he reduced government debt, he reformed tax codes, and he created the Julian calendar. He did a lot of pretty cool stuff. And that was all pretty much in two years cuz he died in 44. BC, was elected in 46 BC.

Emily 31:32
Do you know what the Julian calendar is?

Rachel 31:35
Its calendar. I knew it.

Emily 31:40
I was like, I shouldn’t ask because I

Rachel 31:43
do you know, it’s a it’s a trick question. No,

Emily 31:45
I was just wondering if it was like, the 30 days or 12 months? Or if that’s more recent, or? I don’t know.

Rachel 31:53
Yeah, it just basically says it was designed by it was a reform of the Roman calendar. It was designed with the aid of Greek mathematicians and astronomers. Okay, but it doesn’t really say it’s just a bunch of numbers. Gotcha. Okay. So even though Caesar did quite a bit of good as dictator, he got really. And he declared himself dictator for life in 44 BC. I’m the captain now, which dictator? for life, it was only two years into the 10 year term. So we don’t even know what you’re going to do the other eight years. The Roman politicians were not stoked on this. Obviously, they thought he’s basically a king. Now, if you say, I’m going to be dictator for life, and remember, he had booked a queen and had a baby with her. So at this point, they’re like, well, he already has a queen as his baby mama, even though they couldn’t technically recognize the relationship officially because she wasn’t Roman. So they’re like, this isn’t great for us. So enter the conspirators. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Now, I mentioned at the beginning of my story that Shakespeare wrote Caesars last words as at to Bruton, which led me to think that Brutus was Caesar’s best friend. But not only that Caesar never say that. He also wasn’t super close to Brutus Hmm, actually, the worst trader was decimus junius Brutus Al binus, a distant cousin of Marcus Brutus. confusing, like I said, lots of recycled names. They both have Brutus on them different routes. So we’ve got Brutus who is Marcus Brutus, Brutus, and then decimus. So we’re just going to call him decimus. Shakespeare over here editorialized. He totally did. And you remember, I mean, this is, you know, 1500 years later, change 1600 years later, because also 1599 when he wrote Julius Caesar. So, in the Shakespearean version, Brutus and Cassius were the main conspirators. And they actually did oppose Caesar as he was rising to power during the Civil War. But when Caesar started winning the war, they jumped on the bandwagon. And so Caesar was like, these are powerful dudes, they, you know, can be in the Senate, so obviously, but he knew total Fairweather fans there. Thank you. That is the expression I didn’t looking for. He knew they were shady, and he never really trusted them. decimus on the other hand, was a part of Caesars inner circle. So decimus had family ties to the upper echelon and Robo Roman liability. His grandfather had helped extend Roman rule. His parents had kind of fucked that up. The article I read from history calm said his mother, quote, dabbled in revolution the little devil like, sounds like the best hobby. Yeah, I just dabble. It’s fine but just a little, a little foot tippy toe in the water of revolution, a light that treason, treason. But Caesar light decimus and thought he was a good guy. He was a war hero, and he offered him a chance to restore his family name to its former glory. So decimus was a soldier and he thought under Caesar, his actions in battle helped to seal Roman victory in Gaul. And when Civil War broke out between Pompei and Caesar decimus chose Caesar and he stayed loyal to him. While Caesar was gallivanting across the globe and pregnant and Cleopatra during the dictator thing, and probably others. Yeah. So when Caesar comes back to Rome in 45, BC, decimus is his right hand man. And although politically, Caesar really pushed Rome over the edge from a constitutional republic to a military dictatorship, decimus didn’t really turn on Caesar. For these reasons, it was kind of teetering for about a decade before that, where it was, like, we say, we’re a constitutional republic. But really, if you have the military power, you have power over the country. It was his pride.

So Cesar was very strategic and how he praised his men. He was almost I don’t want to call Caesar a narcissist, although he might have been I don’t have enough information. But we’ve talked before in the podcast about love bombing, when you kind of give somebody a lot. And then it’s really inconsistent after that. Yeah, I might call it operant conditioning, you start out with a lot of validation. And then it’s just sporadic every once in a while. And he did this to keep them guessing and remain in power. So decimus had done a lot of good for Caesar. Like I said, he helped him with go and all that stuff. And he asked Caesar for a victory parade to honor him, which it was pretty common practice soldiers who had been, you know, not as good and more different generals had gotten it before but Caesar was like, Huh, sorry about that. But nope. And not only this, but scissors, great nephew, Gaius. Octavian was already showing himself to be a cunning politician, and he was just a teenager. So this would have been I believe, Julia and pump pays son,

Emily 37:45
somebody is going to get jealous of their grandson.

Rachel 37:49
Yeah. And decimus started to worry that Octavian are no great nephew, so I don’t know whose baby it was, but he was related not grandson. So JK ignore that scratch that aren’t drill. Okay, not Julius. But someone related to Caesar. So like his brothers or sisters, grandson. But decimus started to worry that Octavian might replace him in Caesars inner circle. And the last reason decimus might have, you know, been pushed over the edge was that he was a married he was married to a woman whose family oppose Caesar. So there may have been a pillow talk about oh, I think it was mostly just his pride wanting that recognition and also fear that Octavian was going to take his place. Because it was hard to read Caesar if he was doling out that affection in limited quantities. If he was in one of his down phases where he was being like probably ignored by Caesar. Then he’s like, Oh, God, yeah,

Emily 38:46
I’m on the outs.

Rachel 38:49
So in early 44 BC, when Cassius created the plot to kill Caesar decimus joined in acid more than 60 other prominent men in Rome. Yeah, I know. And although Cassius might have come up with the plan to ambush Caesar in the Senate, decimus made it happen, because he was the only one of the conspirators that Caesar trusted, that’s a mess, was even sitting right next to Caesar at a dinner party that Caesar had thrown the night before he was assassinated. I know. It’s like, it’s like Jesus. It seriously made me think of Jesus and similar time period, right. So the next morning, Cesar decided he was not going to go to said senate meeting, probably because he had heard rumors that there was going to be a coup. But decimus went over to Caesar’s house and talked him into attending the meeting. And since Caesar trusted him, he went and he was ambushed and stat a lot a lot. A lot of times after Caesars murder decimus hired a true have basically mercenary gladiators as a private police force, because the Roman people were a little wishy washy about whether they wanted to support the conspirators or support Caesars supporters, right? Because they were like should be, because if it is a military dictatorship, then it’s like, Okay, well you killed the guy who had the power. So now do you have the power in battle? So eventually, the general population thought that Caesar had more supportive supporters even after he died, then the conspirators did. So they wanted to punish the conspirators. Plus, people were pissed at decimus in particular, because he was Caesar’s friend.

Emily 40:43
Yeah, that’s like, that’s low but

Rachel 40:45
Right, right. So eventually, decimus left Rome for Northern Italy with an army, but he ended up being outsmarted by Octavian who Caesar had named his heir, and adopted son, and he said that word post timeously post honestly,

Emily 41:01

Rachel 41:02
posthumously. I can never say that fucking

Emily 41:05
word. I can’t say infirmary, so it’s fine.

Rachel 41:08
After he died. He was named this fucking said it. So decimus was captured by Octavian or his army and executed. A year later, Brutus and Cassius, who had been on the run, last battle and ended up completing suicide vote. Oh, wow. Mm hmm. Octavian, much like his great uncle, continued to be successful in battle, and eventually becomes a name. We might be a little more familiar with the first Roman Emperor Augustus. Ah, same guy.

Emily 41:42
They’re the same. Totally different name. They’re

Rachel 41:44
the same guy. Yep. Okay, this happens as people take on different titles to obviously that opens up a whole new chapter in history. We’re not going to go there today. But we’ll get back on track Julius Caesar. He was in fact betrayed by a friend and confidant, just like Shakespeare said, and killed on the Ides of March. He was stabbed 23 times in front of a horrified audience, the rest of the house it was a live senate meeting where

Emily 42:13
everyone just like what do we do? Is this perform

Rachel 42:16
in class? Is this some sort of beer performance art? What do we do? Yeah. Oh, so I don’t know what his last words were. I couldn’t find them anywhere. However, I do have a quote from Julius Caesar that I’d like to end on. He said, the evil that men do lives after them. That good is oft interred with their bones. It’s like,

Emily 42:41
oh, the good you did we forget about that. But other than Oh, got it in my burn book.

Rachel 42:47
Yeah. And that is the craziest life death of Julius Caesar.

Emily 42:52
That is insane. I’m so glad they did that story. Like what a good idea.

Rachel 42:58
How crazy. Yeah, and a little happy hour teaser. I I wanted to stick with the theme of kind of fact checking Shakespearean plays that were about real people. And so for happy hour, I’m going to stick around the same time period and talk about Antony and Cleopatra. So if you want to learn more about via Patra, and all the fuckin ptolemies the ptolemies tune in for happy hour, hold the ptolemies. And for those of you who don’t know, just a quick Patreon bug. If you are a Patreon, you can take the RSS feed that they give you on patreon.com slash barbell history or on the Patreon app, search verbal history. And you can paste it to search in iTunes or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and you’ll get the extra content on your preferred player. As soon as it’s available. Game Changer

Emily 43:54
I just learned this Rachel taught me this and it is so nice to not have to go to the Patreon app like just comes right to my iTunes as if it were Apple podcasts as if it was a regular episode though, then sometimes I’m like, What is this episode where we don’t have a new episode today?

Rachel 44:13
I’m like this so $5 my patrons now get an extra episode every week so fucking fantastic. Just a little quick plug. And now to Emily. Over to you.

Emily 44:30
I love that that was so good. Right? I I’ll just like one last thing about Rome was that was an overwhelming feeling the whole time. You’re there to be like the Roman ruins and like you said the Pantheon and the calcium. It’s like fucking Caesar like, walked down the street probably at some point or the other and then fucking Jesus probably walk down the street. Yeah, probably not fucking but

Rachel 44:59
Yeah, okay. Did Jesus just single Italy though he like stayed in the Middle East, right?

Emily 45:05
Oh, I don’t know. Why did I feel like he went to Rome for some

Rachel 45:10
similar time periods? But I don’t think so. I think he was just like chillin in Jerusalem.

Emily 45:15
Yeah. Jesus was Middle Eastern Jesus as a white.

Rachel 45:20
Now I Sorry, sorry, sorry, not sorry. Sorry, sorry, awkward.

Emily 45:26
So I am going to Kingston, Australia, and Kingston, Australia is in the southeast part of Australia. It’s by cape Jaffa. And so there’s a lot of like interesting and cool things to do. There. I will say that it’s what draws me most honestly, is the white sandy beaches, and the beautiful blue ocean. You know, that’s probably where you’d find me if I was there. But there’s lots of stuff like, you know, light house, and there’s this thing they have called the big lobster. And it’s literally this massive fucking lobster sculpture. Like, as big as a building. It’s crazy. I want to

Rachel 46:13
see it.

Emily 46:14
I know. And I think it’s a restaurant to

Rachel 46:18
all Posey. Tell me they only serve seafood. Oh, God. I don’t know if you can see this. Oh, God. Yeah, that’s it looks like an angry Red Frog.

Emily 46:29
And I think that there’s a restaurant under it is what the deal is. Yeah, it’s super creepy looking. Oh, here’s a different angle.

Rachel 46:37
Oh, no. Like it. I don’t know, it looks like an angry fire. And I don’t

Emily 46:42
like that at all. Firms aren’t actually my favorite. Like, I’ll eat lobster out of the shell. But the only I’ve only had lobster hole one time. And they brought it to me. And it’s little eyes are like staring at you. And they have those long tentacles coming off of its head. And I was just like, I don’t want that. So I’m not a good one. Just

Rachel 47:01
knowing the way that you kill them. So that is not my favorite thing. But I will say every time I’m near an ocean, I will get a lobster roll. Because I love a good lobster row. Yeah,

Emily 47:17
so that’s I like a lobster roll. It’s already done for me. I don’t want to have to deal with the rest of it.

Rachel 47:23
That’s fair, although I do like product oils, which I do the work for. But I am not feeling

Emily 47:29
like crab legs. Like I like to crack those legs. It’s fun. But something about that lobster. Maybe their faces are kind

Rachel 47:37
it’s the eyes see is the kitchen. So the big showing you empathy, like please, please so now.

Emily 47:46
Yeah, the big red lobster is kind of like their big selling point. It’s where people are like, Oh, I’m gonna go see the big red lobster. And they’ve got also the lighthouse, the cape Jaffa lighthouse, which is a landmark of course, then they’ve got a lot of like jetties and beaches and a conservation Park and things like like it’s very, it feels very Australia to me, not that I know anything about Australia, but like, nature focus or whatever. So yeah, there’s not even really like if you look at top 10 things to do and Kingston. They’ve got some things like this fissel and B, which is a gift shop that appears to be a candy shop kind of a thing, you know, and like wells mount Benson vineyards, so they’ve got some stuff that I think we’d be interesting in but getting them all back. Yeah, a lot of it is fishing charters, beaches, jetties like that kind of thing. So

Rachel 48:42
what’s a jetty?

Emily 48:44
Um, it looks like a long plank. Not a dock, because it’s like, it doesn’t go all the way out into the ocean, but I don’t know. I think it’s a thing. Let me just Google it. Fuck it. I don’t know. I’m flying by the seat of my pants here.

Rachel 48:59
I like that when I don’t know something. I’m like, and you’re like, I’m just gonna tell you. I don’t you just bullshit your way through it. And I am so proud of you for that. It looks like a like a doc.

Emily 49:12
Right? But it’s super long.

Rachel 49:14
Yeah, it’s like a like a very long dock. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that’s exactly. Yeah.

Emily 49:20
I don’t know that. It’s really long. It goes way out into the ocean. It’s place where you can walk and yeah, a lot of times they have big cement or rocks on the side of it. Or I don’t know. I don’t know what the purpose of it is to be honest, but they have one in Kingston and Okay, apparently it is cool. Oh, I forgot the lobster is named Larry the lobster.

Rachel 49:46
That almost makes it worse. Don’t humanize a lobster. Don’t humanize something I’m probably going to eat later. I don’t do it.

Emily 49:53
Yeah. Oh, and they also have these things called the granite which are these just like big boulders and the beach. And they kind of like interrupted they almost look like big, perfectly round like rocks but that are like half submerged into the beach. No, no, no, it just sounds like a very nature experience and beachy, which I’m into.

Rachel 50:12
It sounds like a cute little place where people actually live and less, you know, full of tourists, which is a

Emily 50:19
Sydney it’s not Yeah, it’s a little place for sure. Okay, so we’re in Kingston, and we’re going to be talking about a shipwreck.

Rachel 50:31
Oh, okay. So

Emily 50:32
you’re a little like, boat story a couple months ago, the essence Yes. So we’re going to be talking about the Maria, which was a 136 tonne sailing ship. And it left the Port Adelaide headed towards Hobart, Tasmania on the 20th of June in 1840. So this is a long time ago, not as long ago as you’re sure. So the Maria ran into some problems right off the get go. It gets blown off. Of course, you know how it goes when you have to sail actually don’t have motors and whatnot. And it floundered at Cape Java, which is close to Kingston, right. So there’s like a reef there. And it got stuck on the reef and basically saying, you know, or whatever. Yeah. And so what follows the ship sinking the ship, the sinking of the ship is not actually the horrible part. It’s what follows after it that is one of the darkest and most controversial events that South Australia has ever seen in its history. Okay, so it’s almost like and you’ll you’ll know what I mean when I get there it’s like a double horrible because it’s it’s very much a lose lose story. Like it’s horrible that happens to the victims and it’s horrible. It happens to the people who did the victimizing. Like it’s just all around horrible, which, Yeah, perfect for our podcast, right?

Rachel 52:03
Absolutely. That’s what we fucking do. Our bread and butter. It’s literally in the name. Horrible history. Why are you listening if you just like history?

Emily 52:15
Exactly. So I feel like most history is horrible, but let’s just okay,

Rachel 52:19
I was gonna make a similar statement, you know, know better do better be better. That’s right. That’s right.

Emily 52:25
So the Maria although it was a very decent sized ship, I mean, 136 tonnes is pretty big. It only had 25 people on board. So the passengers and crew consisted of the captain and his wife, Samuel Denham and his wife which they’re never they’re no names for the wives. It’s just like the man and his wife.

Rachel 52:48
It’s a che 100 ladies don’t matter.

Emily 52:51
So, ironically, Samuel denim and Mrs. denim, and then their five children, Thomas, Andrew, Walter, Fanny and Anna, so the

Rachel 53:00
children married. You know, if they’re virgins, and they’re here, we will know their name. But once you’ve had babies, we will discard you like yesterday’s on this. You?

Emily 53:12
damaged? Good.

Rachel 53:17

Emily 53:18
So it’s the denims the seven of them. And then Mrs. York who is Mrs. denims sister, and she had been recently widowed, and then she had an infant, which is sad to me. There was also James stret, who was Mrs. denim servant, whose name we get to know but not hers. George young green and Mrs. Green Thomas Daniel and Mrs. Daniel, Mr. Murray, and then 1234568 crew members. Okay, four of which are named john. Yeah, people fucking love the name john back then. Okay. Yeah, kind of like how everyone named themselves Ptolemy, or whatever your guy’s name was?

Rachel 54:05
Yeah, Ptolemy, and you will hear a lot more about ptolemies happy hour with Barbara history right after this episode for our patrons. Exactly.

Emily 54:13
Okay, so the Maria hits this reef, and the passengers and the crew make their way ashore. So they’re all they all survived the wreck. They just like, swim to the shore or whatever. And they get to the shore and their goal is to walk by foot to a place called encounter Bay, which is where they’ll be able to go to seek aid for you know, the fact that they just sent their fucking ship

Rachel 54:39
and you said everyone survived. Yeah, so far so far. Yeah. Right. I’m imagining when you say horrible, horrible that maybe that’s not the case later, but

Emily 54:48
okay. Guide the sinking of? Yeah, cool. Okay. I

Rachel 54:53
was like, Wow, really short story. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Emily 54:57
That’s fine. That’s it done.

Rachel 54:58
The end you I wish.

Emily 55:01
Okay, so according to a later account, around 37 miles from the wreck in company with some friendly Aboriginals that they met, they came across the split in the road, essentially. And they all had this big argument, the, the 25 people had this argument about whether or not they should follow this new trail or stay on course, yada, yada, yada sounds kind of stupid, but they decided to split up. And so like half of them go with Captain Smith and the crew. And then half of them decide to stay on the shoreline and just like stick to the shore, which I’m just like, Guys, first roll of horror movies do not split up like what are you doing? Never split. This

Rachel 55:49
isn’t a horror movie in their brains. This is fucking Gilligan’s Island, that’s when they’re like, we’ll just get some coconuts, we’ll make a radio, everything’s gonna be fine.

Emily 55:59
That’s true. They don’t know what’s coming for them. They don’t know. But retrospectively don’t split up

Rachel 56:05
Captain home site.

Emily 56:08
So this was the last time that the entire group would be knowingly alive like that, we would know that the whole group was alive. Okay, so since they never reached out to their homeland, to say like we made it or reach their destination. Pretty soon there started to be these rumors about what had happened to them. It’s like something must have happened. Where are they? Where’s the passengers and crew of them, Maria. And so the case finally gets brought to the public eye on April 10 of 1841, when this guy named Mr. Richard Penny decides to go in and look for the people, right, so he gets guided by these members of the aborigine tribe, to the grave of this man who had quote, unquote, died at sea. So he’s there searching for these people. And the aborigines are like, Oh, we do you have a dead white man here? Like, do you want to go see him or whatever? His name is john, here is the John’s is here. Yeah. And so they thought what he was gonna find was this guy named Captain Colette Barker, who had been speared to death in April of 1831, like 10 years before, and they were like, oh, we’re finally going to find Captain Barker. Except what he actually found was four bodies. And they were people that were unaccounted for from the Maria rack. So it was like, Oh, fuck, like, here are some of those people that were on that boat that missing, you know, so the bodies were in a really bad state. And it was pretty clear to Mr. Penny, that they’d been beaten to death. And so because of this, he goes back, he tells the governor of South Australia what had happened. And this guy whose name is Governor gawler, got gawler. I don’t know. He was the second governor, and he ordered this guy, major Thomas o hollow ran to head south and really investigate this situation. They’re like, we need to figure out what the fuck happened. Now, there’s four bodies, they none of them showed up anywhere. They were supposed to be like, we need to figure this out. So Governor gawler gave some instructions when he was leaving, he said, and again, old timey language, when to your conviction, you have identified any number not exceeding three of the actual murderers, you will there explain to them the nature of your conduct, and you will deliberately and formally cause sentence of death to be executed by shooting or hanging.

Rachel 58:58
So essentially, there is not going to be more than three dudes, but you have my permission to convict three dudes and kill them.

Emily 59:07
Yeah, it’s like, you can find three people who murdered and killed three of them, but don’t kill more than three because then it’s going to be a big news story. We don’t need Tansy. They’re like,

Rachel 59:20
no press is good press. All right.

Emily 59:24
I’m up for reelection. So this group of men are sent over to Kingston to investigate. And what they find is, quote, legs and arms and parts of bodies partially covered with sand and strewn in all directions. And they basically describe a trail of native footprints leading away from the scene.

Rachel 59:49
And well fuck,

Emily 59:50
right. It’s like, what’s happened here? And then other reports say that the people they found were like stripped of all their possessions and then Head over the head and decapitated. And then Whoa, buried in the sand or in wombat holes, which I did not know what a wombat hole was like. I guess I knew what a wombat kind of looks like. But I was trying to picture a hole big enough that a grown fuckin person would fit into it. And I was like, What? So I googled it. Apparently, wombats are really efficient diggers. And so they make these burrows that are from 10 to 100 feet long, and up to 11 feet deep. So it’s like this big fucking thing.

Rachel 1:00:33
Again, that’s grave. Thank you. Wow, that’s

Emily 1:00:36
thanks for digging us this mass grave, and they put all the white people in it that had been killed. So this Oh, hollerin guy is like, well, I’m pretty sure I know who these people are. But we have to double check. Luckily, two of the bodies did have wedding rings on and so that really helped the searchers identify who these people were and like, confirm, okay, they were members of the Maria ship. Furthermore, the body of the captain is found far removed from all of the others. And there’s never any trace of the crew members, the eight crew members never found so

Rachel 1:01:15
still to

Emily 1:01:15
this day, never thought never ever so know if they suffered the same fate as the passengers or like, Where Where did they go? Where they completely consumed? Or

Rachel 1:01:27
I don’t know. Oh, yeah.

Emily 1:01:29
So on August 23, the group was searching still to try to find who did this. And they ran into a number of Aborigines. And they found within those people like with those people, the Maria’s logbook, and some of the passenger and crews clothing, and so they were like, Uh huh, we found you, you know, here are murderers. But there are five,

Rachel 1:01:56
there could only be three

Emily 1:01:58
worse. They rounded up 13 men, two boys and 50 women and children.

Rachel 1:02:04
Oh my god, no.

Emily 1:02:05
So they shackle the men and then set the others free, thankfully. But though they all stay like they voluntarily Stay close, because they’re like, what are you doing to our men? So they want to be there to like, yeah, watch, I guess. And so at some point, two of these men that they had captured, tried to escape, they like ran to the water, and we’re trying to swim out to sea to get away. And I think I’ll haul around was like, thing, here’s my less than three that I get to kill. And they shot them and wounded them. And then they followed governor Governor’s instructions to a tee and hung the two men who had tried to escape. Wash your hands of like, we got, um, guys, we killed two of them. Yeah, here is kind of where the problem comes in retrospectively as we think about because like you could think there Wow, these Aboriginal indigenous people attacked and brutally killed the US 25 people who were just like shipwrecked, and needed help, you know, but here’s the problem later. Like, very recently, later, 2003. There’s this elder from the Naren Jerry tribe. And he’s a member of this tribe. And they have had stories passed down generations, right?

Rachel 1:03:27
Since, yeah, of course,

Emily 1:03:28
from 1840. And

Rachel 1:03:30
just a quick Asterix, like, I’ve been reading, Aboriginal native people in Australia were treated very similarly to how black people, slaves were treated in America. So like, pretty fucked up. And we kind of cover that when we did our black history episodes in February. And also, like, just important to note, like, there was already huge stigma on Aboriginal people in the 1800s. Right?

Emily 1:03:56
So it’s just like, Oh, well, of course, they’re the ones that killed, you know, these people. And of course, they did it brutally and ruthlessly, for no apparent reason because they’re, quote unquote, animals, you know, right.

Rachel 1:04:09
Obviously, not true,

Emily 1:04:10
you know, and that’s what this elder from the tribe is talking about. Very recently, in 2003. He said that he’s over the years this story has been passed down from elders. And he has been told that the survivors met up with their people. And they were nice. They offer them fire and whoo, whoo. water and food, tried to combine the two food, food. And he even said, like, it’s the doodle. What’s wrong with me? It’s the Duty (duty hehe).

Rachel 1:04:44
This is what happened to record two nights in a row. Right? It gets us both, huh.

Emily 1:04:49
It’s the duty of our people to help those in need. So he has been told that they offer them fire and water and food They’re there to help them. But then these sailors probably the male’s I would guess, based on this next part kept looking at the young girls from the tribe and trying to sexually interfere with them is how they put it but like, you know, probably worst case raped them. But yeah, even case

Rachel 1:05:24
best case like I say shed their boobs or whatever, not better colonization aka. Right, but what’s your name? Yeah,

Emily 1:05:35
so that is not the way of the Yaran Jerry people and the state, the sailors were sternly warned by the elders of the group. This is an offense punishable by death under our law, so knock it the fuck off, like even gave them a chance to stop. Like, we don’t know what you do where you come from, but here you don’t fuck with our teen girls like knock off, you know, seriously. And so it is basically believed that at some point, I’m sure it continued, you know. And a fight erupted. And basically, the sailors and the people from the boat lost. Like, they got bested. Okay. Like, sorry, we know how to fight and this is our land, and

Rachel 1:06:27
then you’re just on a fucking three hour cruise. Yeah, we’re at war. Yeah, bah, bah, bah, bah.

Emily 1:06:35
So this guy that was being interviewed very recently, his name was Tom trevorrow. And so he basically said, you know, what, my people carried out the law of my people and their minds, they were doing what was just and taking care of people who were breaking the rules, you know, 100%. And he said, here’s a quote from him, they would have no idea of the repercussions that were coming, which as we know, were, you know, these people coming from the mainland or from wherever and the capital and hanging them and attacking the aborigines because of their terrible murder that they did have white people how dare so one kind of positive thing, I guess, is that a lot of people actually disagreed with what had happened to the Aboriginals. They did not like that these people went in and hung hung these men. It caused a lot of stir in Adelaide, and all the way in London, because as we know, London, oh, colonized. Yeah, Australia back then. So it made its way all the way to London, the press was not good press. And they had like a field day with these accusations of murder and corruption and miscarriages of justice. And there was a thing called the aborigines protection society. And they basically argued that South Australian law should not be used in this case, because the Aboriginals in the area hadn’t pled allegiance to the crown, like they aren’t technically, members of that society. And so we shouldn’t be able to, like go in and impose our law on them and just kill them because the governor says we can three at a time or whatever. Yeah. And on the other end of it, the Aboriginals are like, we should be able to enact our laws. So it’s like, like I said, beginning really great on any side like, yeah, these poor people shipwrecked. I’m sure they didn’t expect to be murdered, you know. But also then,

Rachel 1:08:51
man, where it gets iffy for me as the women and children. Yeah, you know, because I doubt they were acting inappropriately to the teen girls. But I also know if somebody is threatening your husband or whatever, you might be more inclined to fight back. But the children though, I don’t know.

Emily 1:09:11
Yeah, just like a casualty of at all or psyche, or even even die like having a watch their fathers be killed. Oh,

Rachel 1:09:19
horrible, all the way around 360 degrees of

Emily 1:09:22
horrible 360 degrees. Exactly. So like I said, this is a kind of short story, it, it was hard for me to find too much more information. A lot of what I found was just like conflicting opinions on why the natives attacked the sailors, the people from the Maria. Like I said it was reported that some of them were looking at the women. There were also some reports that the people on the ship had offered to give them things like we’ll give you blankets and clothes And things if you’ll guide us off of the island or to our next destination. And then when they tried to get those things from them, they like reneged on their offer, and we’re like, JK, you know, or like, oh, we’ll get them and bring them back to you. And so

Rachel 1:10:15
these blankets aren’t filled with smallpox like, like, as a white person who descends from white people, sometimes white people are shifty. Yeah.

Emily 1:10:26
Well, especially when there is like you said that stigma where it’s like, oh, we can easily track these people, you know, they’re essentially considered less than human. And so I was like, Oh, we can tell them that we’re going to give them these blankets and then not Yeah. And so that was a lot of what I found was these conflicting reports of why they were killed. And then conflicting reports about how many Aboriginals were killed by the governor’s men that he sent. And so since it was 1840, I’m guessing the numbers are all quite skewed. Yeah. But all that we really know is that there’s a lot of murder in on both sides. And it did have one positive after effects that some people did start to say like, hey, this isn’t okay. Which I’m like, Yay, kudos to the liberals on that. But yeah, so short and sweet kind of story, I will say the Maria’s hole was never found. So they never found the ship. And there’s this senior maritime heritage officer named Aamir Khan from like now. And he basically said that if someone was able to find the ship, it’s been 175 years, like it’s been a long time, right? It would be a discovery of really immense historical value. And so there’s always people going out and trying to find it, they’ve never found it yet, which is kind of crazy. Some people think it broke up on rocks. And people think that it is buried in the sand, like they said, with as much time that has passed, there is a lot of chance that it’d be entirely buried by sand and sediment. But it also says that that amount of coverage could have technically, like totally preserved the ship. So they’re kind of like, if we did find it, it’s possible, we could find like a very interesting glimpse into history. That would be so cool. So that would be pretty cool.

Rachel 1:12:34
I would watch a documentary on that. discovered it right? Yeah, totally. What?

Emily 1:12:38
Another thing that was interesting was that they said that there are the remains of 100 shipwrecks off the coast of South Australia. Holy shit, right? I’m like, what is happening down there that all these ships are just like, going to hell. So but I think there’s that reef that’s pretty dangerous, so they get trapped on it and sank. And yeah, one other interesting thing to note is that there were 4000 Gold sovereign coins on the Maria. And there’s lots of tales about where the gold went, because they never found it, obviously, in the boat because they didn’t find the boat. They didn’t find it in the clothing of the people or anything like that. It just disappeared. But there are some tales about where it is, or where it’s been found, quote, unquote, some people say that there was a trail of gold that led to the bodies, which is not true. I didn’t hear that anywhere else. One trick one tail says that fisherman found one gold coin in the gut of a fish that was caught kind of down in that area. And so they’re like, Oh, I bet it’s all here underwater, you know. And so it’s kind of leading to this whole like treasure hunt. Kind of like, that’s why part of why they’re all looking for this ship. Because they’re like, if we could find those coins, that would be awesome.

Rachel 1:14:10
They’re like every nine year old kid ever who’s just like, we are gonna find some treasure in my backyard in this suburbs. detrimental detector. Yeah, I know. Right? And then your mom is so mad. Why do you stay up so many rules in my yard? Rachel

Emily 1:14:24
gone. We just got this lawn Airaid it

Rachel 1:14:30
started my second life. But

Emily 1:14:34
yes, so one major reason why they’d like to find the ship, like I said is to possibly find the 4000 gold coins. It said that would be of course one of the most amazing finds in Australian history, especially because today those 4000 coins would be valued at about $1.5 million. And that’s just based on like the value of the gold. Not based on historical value, which would make this like three or four times that so four or five $6 million worth of amazing Oracle Content. So that is a short and sweet kind of story, but I found it really interesting. A lot of people today call it the Maria massacre. And it’s just when I first read about it, it was like, oh, a massacre of the people on board. And then, you know, when you dig in and realize it was a massacre. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. All the way around. So I was really,

Rachel 1:15:35
really good. Really like he had a ton of silver lining there. Yeah, I mean, interesting. super interesting. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Lots of history today. Lots of history. If you want more where that came from, we’re going to plug our Patreon again. patreon.com slash verbal history, do it.

Emily 1:15:56
You can also follow us on social we’re on Instagram and tick tock at horrible history pod. And you can of course, always send us an email at horrible history podcast@gmail.com We are always looking for stories, and especially now that we have our new content, where in the world is horrible history. I would love to hear your travel stories, you know, anything you really have to share. We would love to hear about it. And we’ll probably share some of it on other episodes too. So don’t feel like if you’re not a patron, you just shouldn’t send stories. Oh, absolutely. shazza become a patron.

Rachel 1:16:33
Yeah, obviously. Thanks so much for listening.

Emily 1:16:38
Hopefully you’re horrified.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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