This week Emily covers the insanely grotesque story of Richard Chase – the Vampire of Sacramento – who drank the blood of his victims because he thought his own blood was turning to powder. Then, Rachel tells the tragic tale of the murders of Dr. Charles Scudder and Joe Odom, a couple that hosted some crazy sex orgies in their pink room … and then were murdered. Hopefully, you’re horrified.
Content/Trigger Warnings: cannibalism, extremely gruesome content, child murder, homophobia
Transcript:
Emily 0:14
Hi, welcome to horrible history. I’m Emily Barlean
Rachel 0:17
And I’m Rachel Everett Lozon. how are you? My love my muse?
Emily 0:23
My love
Rachel 0:25
my light my moon and stars getting creepy. Oh, is it not the time to tell you about the 12 page letter that I wrote for you? Should I wait till I come to Omaha? I will wait. Yeah, often the best. And then Emily murders me as we’ve alluded to, that is the end of this podcast. Actually,
Emily 0:45
I think recently, I said that I’d be a good co parent with you. So maybe we’re taking us down the wrong path.
Rachel 0:51
Here’s what she’s gonna do. She’s gonna marry me for the insurance money. Uh huh. teach my kids that she’s their real mom. And they’ll be like, we look just like this other lady. What the heck does the other one looks just like my husband. So that’ll be fun. But I we were trying to figure out our banter. And aside from me, creeping Emily out, we don’t have a ton because Emily’s story is just so horrible today. Guys,
Emily 1:21
I’m just gonna add the top just tell you that I picked this story because it sounded interesting. Just like the name of the person. It’s like picking a book by its cover essentially, or a one by it’s my I was gonna say a wine by the label, which we do.
Rachel 1:38
Right. Cheers. By the way.
Emily 1:40
I’m ready. I was just like, this sounds fascinating. And I picked it. And then as I was researching it, I was like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So warning trigger warnings at the top. Okay, it’s not great. So if you’re, I don’t know if squeamish or weak
Rachel 2:00
if you don’t like gross, gruesome things. Is that fair to say? I don’t know what you’re doing. You don’t even know. So let’s get started. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Where are you going?
Emily 2:13
I’m like, let’s start there. I am going to sunny Sacramento, actually a Sacramento sunny. I think it’s more northern.
Rachel 2:22
I mean, in California in general, it’s sunny, sunny place, right? Yeah, it’s Tommy D.
Emily 2:28
So I’m going to Sacramento. And I think what a lot of people think about when they think about Sacramento is the gold rush. You know, when you think of history, like that’s kind of where people are pointing themselves for the gold rush and everything. And so that’s kind of what popped into my brain at least. But there’s a lot more to that city, then. its history, obviously. And one of the big things about Sacramento that I love because I’m a self proclaimed foodie, which is such a loser thing that’s
Rachel 3:02
I have dubbed myself a foodie.
Emily 3:05
Did you know you have a food blog that was pretty popular.
Rachel 3:08
Did you seriously when
Emily 3:11
it was like right when I moved to St. Louis. So like, 2010 through 2012? Maybe?
Rachel 3:18
I believe that you’re a very good writer that comes. I mean, I haven’t read your stuff. But I know by the way you self taught you spell stories, by the way you tell stories. I swear I’m not drunk. This is my first glass of wine that I’m trying real hard to finish, by the way that you are the best at stories
Emily 3:36
I’m the best at stories.
Rachel 3:38
That you’re you’re a good writer. I was drinking validate you and now.
Emily 3:43
I appreciate it. No, I need that constantly. It was a big enough food blog that one time I was asked to judge a pie baking contest. I got one of the restaurants that I reviewed because it was both recipes that I made and reviewing St. Louis restaurants. They hung my fare like printed out my blog and like put it on their wall.
Rachel 4:10
I was like, was it in a frame? Please say yes.
Emily 4:12
They’re like, Amelia loves us. And I’m like, I’m just some bitch who has a food blog. Because I’m bored if I pass motherfucker.
Rachel 4:24
God has no one got a laminator
Emily 4:28
Exactly. So fresh food is an important thing to people like me. And it’s also a crucial component to Sacramento. And so they have a lot of like, must try culinary experiences from what I can tell that was my California voice. Server Valley. So anyways, since 2012, Sacramento has been campaigning itself as America’s Farm to Fork capital. Okay, all right. So they like this slogan so much that in 2017, they kicked their old slogan, which was the city of trees out. And they replaced it with the much more successful campaign slogan of America’s Farm to Fork capital.
Rachel 5:26
I actually do like, I thought that was kind of stupid until you said it used to be the city of trees. And yes, it’s an upgrade and improvement.
Emily 5:34
Yeah. So I guess that they are located in a pretty heavy, heavily agricultural area. And so they’ve got fresh produce year round. And so there’s lots of farmers markets, which I am such a basic bitch. I love a farmers market. And they have like a ton of these Farm to Fork events, including a farm to fork festival in September and like fruit festivals, such as berry Fest, or the pair fair. Oh, that cue or the Mandarin festival. So yeah, I know. I’m like, I want to go to all those. I also love a good festival. But the place I really, really, really want to go. So when we’re in Sacramento, here’s where we’re going for dinner, we’re gonna have to save money. Well, we’ll Yeah, we’ll just we’ll splurge. It’s this restaurant called the kitchen. And it’s one of those restaurants that has like a really performative chef that does the like cool, hip, things like foam, you know, on their food. And like a meal presented in a pile of sticks. You know, it’s like, like what you see at like, on a cooking show, people being way too fancy with their shit,
Rachel 6:51
but just this guy who’s just extra,
Emily 6:54
extra swag, but it’s because he’s like, everything the light touches in this restaurant from the ground. Like, it’s like
Rachel 7:02
a sticks,
Emily 7:04
these sticks in the alley, and now they are your plate, you’re with
Rachel 7:08
me, and I’m gonna charge you $150 for these fucking
Emily 7:12
twigs. I’ve been in business for since 1991. And they’ve won every award imaginable James spear like all of that kind of stuff. And they were kind of the first place to establish the whole farm to fork thing. And so they work with local folks and have this really cool dinner service. That includes get this an eight course menu that also has welcome hors d’oeuvres. So technically, that’s nine courses, and coffee, tea and something called Min yardies, which are tiny pastries and sweets that are served after dessert. So it’s like a 10 course menu, like 10, double versus double dessert. It’s like you have a creme brulee. And then they bring you like a tiny little pet before something is like a thing as you leave. And so they have the menu is all based on a seasonal framework. And they have this emphasis on local and super unique. So it’s $155 per person.
Rachel 8:16
Oh, I was so close. I know. Right?
Emily 8:18
Plus 22% service charge on that entire ticket. And for 155 additional dollars, so double it wine flight pairings with selections of wines for every quarter.
Rachel 8:36
Oh, you got to do that oh
Emily 8:39
eight glasses of wine. And like I hope they also provide some sort of taxi service service to get people home like sounds like our kind of party right like great food and a lot of wine
Rachel 8:50
for like, let’s just say you know, $300 plus gratuity. I’m also going to need stretchy pants. So we’ll be out of there with stretchy pants and just drive me home. can’t write. I’m not going back to my hotel or my Airbnb. There’s no way I’m driving. No like, and there’s no way I’m buttoning anything, so maybe I’m wearing a dress perhaps like an empire baby. No,
Emily 9:17
it’s like it sounds fancy. Like we’re gonna have to dress up but no pants. Nothing with buttons for show pants.
Rachel 9:22
Oh, God. Like my buttons are about to pop on my normal jeans just
Emily 9:26
here. You know, it’s like two sizes, just listening.
Rachel 9:30
Oh my god, it sounds so good. But it sounds
Emily 9:32
so fun. And it reminds me of my experience at the Gordon Ramsay restaurant, which anyone who is a patron can head over to Patreon and listen to today’s episode of where in the world is horrible history where I share that experience with everyone.
Rachel 9:47
So I can’t wait to hear about it. You You have already Rachel remember? No. We’re recording it after the illusion illusion is shattered shot.
Emily 10:03
I apologize listeners.
Rachel 10:07
You have
Emily 10:12
well, so if we want to be less boozy, but still have a cool experience, we could go to the West wind to Sacramento drive in for a movie, because who doesn’t love a drive in movie theater? And then after that retro experience, go to Rick’s dessert diner, which is like an aesthetically 50s vintage does dessert shop. So sounds fun. Yeah, so Sacramento is on my list. Now. I want to go there sounds awesome.
Rachel 10:42
Yeah, it hasn’t been on my list before. But let’s go ahead and just do like a food and wine Tour of California. Yes, please have fun with Abby. I just got so wide. So. Yeah.
Emily 10:56
Okay. random question. Totally off topic. How do you feel about vampires? Are you Team Edward or Team Jacob?
Rachel 11:08
So it’s been about a decade since I’ve read Twilight and I have read all four books. Oh, hell, yeah. Yeah. And I saw that I ever saw the final installment of the the two parter might have just not seen it. Because I was. Yeah, I might have just lost interest. I was Team Jacob. I’m sorry. I knew that was going to be an unpopular
Emily 11:30
opinions thing we’ve disagreed on.
Rachel 11:34
I did I liked Edward at first. I really did. And then I was like, you’re really old. And then you have you seem kind of controlling and i i don’t like the obsession with a teenage girl. They’re already prone to obsession. I don’t know. And with Jacob, he just felt very, like warm and easygoing and natural. And then he fell in love with a fetus and that kind of wrecked it for me. So by the end, I wasn’t you
Emily 12:03
know, when? Yeah, exactly.
Rachel 12:05
I team. I no longer have those books. Wow.
Emily 12:11
Do you know whose team we’re not on? Who’s that? We’re not on team. Richard Chase. Oh, you did not do Richard Chase, better known as the vampire of Sacramento. Oh, sweet
Rachel 12:23
fucking Mother of God. Now
Emily 12:26
you know what I mean? The fucking worst. Uh huh.
Rachel 12:30
Okay, yeah. He He’s actually on my list as well. And I’m glad that you get the privilege of covering him. I guess. You’re right here. I’m glad you’re going first. Yeah,
Emily 12:42
it’s one of the most gruesome horrible, awful things that I’ve ever read. I honestly, like I said, I was like, ooh, vampire. Sounds cool. I didn’t know the story. Not that kind of vampire Lee. And I’m like, Oh, god, that’s
Rachel 12:56
terrible. I’ve heard his story before. I think I blocked most of it out because it’s kind of bad. So like,
Emily 13:02
laid on me. I’m gonna lay it on you. But you know, listener, listen with caution. I’m telling you this. Now I’m not going to stop and trigger Warren during because it would be every 20 seconds. I’m going to share the details about what he did. And his murders because the morbid curious need and want to know, but Hmm, like, Oh, God, okay. Okay, so let’s start. Let’s talk about Richard Chase.
Rachel 13:29
Should I get another glass of wine? No, no, I can’t do it. Okay.
Emily 13:34
So Richard Chase, grew up under the thumb of an abusive father, who did not really like get his son. You know, I guess Richard was kind of disturbed. The father didn’t quite get it. He didn’t get him any kind of help when he was growing up. And by the time he was 10, he was really showing all three of the signs of as we know the McDonald’s triangle. So that’s the thing that predicts sociopathy and a patient and so the signs for this I’m sure all the morbid curious know this already, but it’s bedwetting setting fires and cruelty to animals, which chase had in spades, all of them. So by the time he was 18, he was using drugs almost every day, specifically marijuana and LSD. But he also drank heavily so he had a lot of external sources going into his body that are amplifying everything. So despite all of that, I will say he did pretty okay in high school, and I will show a picture of him to you at some point from high school. He’s cute. He’s like a cutie like golden boy like, big smile like looks happy. I’m just like, really happy with this guy. Because if you see photos of him later, not too much horrifying. Vampire.
Rachel 14:59
Well, every now From Ted Bundy, who, for the record is not hot? No serial killer is not hot in real life. That but regardless, it does not matter what you look like on the outside because you can still be a sociopath. So keep that in mind when you are browsing. Yeah.
Emily 15:20
And I feel like often Yeah, say, well and narcissists and psychopaths, for sure. Like, can they know how to present themselves? Well to fit in, you know, so watch yourself. I’ve dated Narcissus before. It’s not fun. Watch so,
Rachel 15:38
yeah. Okay, shake yourself before.
Emily 15:41
Okay, we’re done. So we’re just, we’re just started selling again. Okay, so eventually, Richard’s father kicked him out of the house. And when this happened, he fell deeper into his drug habit, which didn’t really help his mental condition at all. And so he actually had a really severe case of hypochondria, which I’m like, Oh, my God. So do I know not severe? I don’t have a severe case. But I’m like, dammit,
Rachel 16:08
you also don’t drop acid. So I think what if I did? He had doubts.
Emily 16:13
Yeah. So his hypochondria manifested quite differently than my never has. He believed that his heart had stopped beating, that his blood was turning to powder, and that someone was stealing his pulmonary artery.
Rachel 16:30
So hang on for a second. Hey, Bo. condry. Yeah, or schizophrenia. Yeah, it’s the latter. That sounds very delusional disorder to me. Yeah, for sure. So
Emily 16:40
one of the ways he tried to cure treat himself, he would press oranges into his forehead because he thought it would help his brain directly absorb the vitamin C that he needed. What right now it works. I know Dr. But close, because of all the Grey’s Anatomy I’ve watched. And that’s
Rachel 17:02
not how it works, obviously. No, no, it’s like you can’t look I love taking a shower. But you can still get out of there dehydrated. osmosis when it comes to our nutrition,
Emily 17:14
not so much. Not so much. Is artist illusion, maybe was the he believed that the bones in his skull, were moving around like puzzle pieces. So he shaved his head so he could watch the changes, which is crazy. Oh, and then in 1975, he was institutionalized after being finally diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic
Rachel 17:41
nailed it. Yeah. It’s like you’re trained. Okay? Almost.
Emily 17:48
So the incident that led to his institutionalization, he tried to inject himself with rabbits blood, which made him super sick.
Rachel 17:59
Yeah. Do I even want to ask where he got the rabbit? Or is it just a random? I don’t want to know. It’s not important.
Emily 18:04
I don’t know. I assume he literally just caught it. And killed it. Sure. And put its blood in his body. Blood path
Rachel 18:13
talking intravenous.
Emily 18:15
Okay, even the little blood? Like this is how you get HIV.
Rachel 18:20
Yeah, don’t share blood a blood pact. Don’t make up blood pack with a rabbit.
Emily 18:25
Those tricky little hairs will get you every time.
Rachel 18:29
tricks are not for.
Emily 18:33
Oh, no. Now I can picture that white rabbit from tricks like with a knife.
Rachel 18:41
And I took it a step further. And I’m like, ah, an illusion Michaels
Unknown Speaker 18:45
a trick you something
Rachel 18:46
boy does for money. Or candy. I’ve made a huge mistake doing
Emily 18:59
so while he’s in the hospital, so he’s in the mental institution. He’s killing birds and drinking their blood, which I’m like, Who’s monitoring this? And like, they’re just like, oh, Richard.
Rachel 19:13
tricky. Jake. Are you? Are you in just the lowest security mental facility? Because in most places now, I don’t know about the 70s. But when you’re institutionalized, you are heavily monitored. Yeah, you’re stripped of anything that you could use as a weapon against yourself or others. Right. How’s it killing? Bert? This bear?
Emily 19:33
Hey, how’s it catching them and then bare hands killing them?
Rachel 19:36
Like, is he a bear?
Emily 19:38
Here’s your sign like seriously?
Rachel 19:41
Ah, okay.
Emily 19:42
So he was drinking the blood of the birds because he thought it would stop his illness, which as we know he’s like, I think it’s all this thing. It’s all connected to blood right his heart he thinks his heart has stopped beating which is the center of all where your blood circulates through. He thought his shed turned upside So he’s like trying to replenish his system, basically. And so he continues to believe that he is being poisoned at then. And that the poison was turning his blood to powder, as I mentioned. And so if you drink new blood from other creatures, it would cure him. So despite all of that, and the staff knowing he was doing this, they released him to the care of his mother, instead of keeping him institutionalized. mistakes, mistakes. Yeah, yeah. So I guess they had evaluated him and determined that he was like, in a better mental position, probably because he was drugged, you know? So they’re like, Oh, he’s doing better. So they are like, okay, we’ll release him, but he was not in a better mental position. And then when he gets home, his mother’s like, hmm, these drugs make him weird. Or Yeah, I don’t know if any of them editorializing here. But you know, oh, he’s too sleepy, or whatever. And so she tries to wean him off of his meds. So he, of course, gets more and more delusional. After that. Right hand, there’s nothing legally binding to make him stay with his mom.
Rachel 21:21
Right? So it’s just he’s in her custody. And he doesn’t have to stay there.
Emily 21:26
Yeah, instead of her, like, monitoring him having a sane adult to like, watch over him and make sure he is okay. His mom Wiens them off of his meds, and sends him on out into the world. And so he moves out of his mom’s home,
Rachel 21:41
can I make a quick note as your friendly neighborhood? So, basically, I not, I don’t work with severely, persistently, mentally ill, very often. I’m just not trained in it. However, I do know that with schizophrenia in particular, and other delusional disorders, it’s not like, if you have depression, and you’re on Zoloft, and Zoloft works pretty well. And then you kind of get weaned off of it. And then you’re like, No, no, this wasn’t right. I’m just gonna start getting back on Zoloft again. And then it works again, that can work for things like anxiety, depression, right? That doesn’t work for schizophrenia. Like, every time you get off your meds, your delusion, or your paranoia, or the other symptoms of this particular type of mental disorder, change your brain. And then when you get back on, if you get back on the medications, they do not work the same way. Because actually, your cognition, your mental functioning has deteriorated in this way. So it’s really important if you are on meds, and again, we’ve talked about this time and time again, having a mental disorder like schizophrenia obviously, does not mean that you were violent does not make you a killer does not make you anything of the sort. If you were on meds for a delusional disorder, and they are working well stay on those meds, stand those meds, consult a doctor, obviously, because he stopped taking them and you get worse, there’s no guarantee that those meds or any other meds will work as effectively as a med care.
Emily 23:16
That’s fascinating and scary. Interesting. Because I do feel like the other thing is that those kinds of meds when you’re dealing with such significant mental disorders, and I’m sure very strong drugs, I’m sure they they change who you are, or like, I don’t know, do they make you like a flatline? You know what, that’s what I was trying to get, like, make you sluggish or whatever. And so that’s sucks, too. But yeah, better than like Richard chase who moved out of his mother’s home because she, he thought she was poisoning him. And so he got real paranoid about that and moved, moved in with some really sad friends, which I’m kind of like, Whoa, he had friends. So that’s crazy. But they quickly demanded that he move out because he was high all the time, and would walk around naked even in front of guests. So
Rachel 24:12
naked Tuesday.
Emily 24:15
So they are like, you have to go and he was like, No, I’m not going anywhere. And so they moved out. So this leaves him now living alone.
Rachel 24:22
So he’s a squatter. Basically, yeah, squatters, right?
Emily 24:27
Yeah, exactly. So living on your own can be difficult. I mean, I live by myself. And like, when you’re low and feeling like you need someone, it’s not just like, you can’t turn to your husband or your kids even or your parents or whatever. And just be like, like, I just want you know, sometimes it can be lonely. And so I think if you’re a paranoid schizophrenic, I don’t know there’s nothing there to ground him. It feels like
Rachel 24:55
I mean, even the thing about schizophrenia in particular is that It’s really difficult for people who are very severely mentally ill off their medications to differentiate between their delusion and reality. So even if he did have roommates, even if he did have his mom, it’s the same amount of real to him that his mom is trying to poison him as he is naked today because he didn’t feel like wearing clothes. Like there’s, there’s not that ability to differentiate between reality and delusion. So it I mean, you’re looking at it from this very, you know, mentally healthy, practical way that’s like, well, I need somebody to ground me and tell me like, Emily, it’s gonna be okay. When you’re feeling anxious or, you know, you gotta shut down
Emily 25:38
at work or whatever. But But if you’re schizophrenic, no one would be able to ground you if you’re
Rachel 25:42
schizophrenic, because they’re like, well, you’re not real. Why? Who are you to tell me things are okay. Yeah, like,
Emily 25:48
I’m sorry to hear that. You know, like, the government’s telling you tell me this or whatever? Yes.
Rachel 25:53
I mean, exactly that.
Emily 25:55
Yikes. Yeah. Well, so now he lives on his own. So he has, you know, an unbridled ability to do whatever he wants. And so he starts capturing and killing animals. This is where he starts he eating them raw, or using their organs to make a slurry. So he would put all their organs in a blender with some Coca Cola and blend it and then drink it. Yeah. Here comes the coping mechanism of funny. Got out, so I hope people aren’t like Rachel, what the fuck? I say he’s drinking their blood. She’s like,
Rachel 26:43
Oh, warious so like, when I was in high school, my favorite thing was to go to a movie and get the slushy. slushie the Coca Cola on one side and then that cherry flavor on the other and get them all mixed together. And I was just thinking maybe that looks like that. But it for sure.
Emily 27:06
Oh, no.
Rachel 27:09
In my brain, and it was just this really inappropriate. I had to laugh and I apologize.
Emily 27:14
Oh, and you know, when you get the slushy, and it has that straw that has the opening at the end. That looks like a tiny
Rachel 27:20
Yeah. I love that. It’s my favorite thing, but I never used it on the blood of animals, please. Okay, good, good. Good.
Emily 27:27
So he was doing this because he thought it would stop his heart from shrinking. So that is where his mental where he’s at mentally in terms of why he’s doing
Rachel 27:36
Yes. His delusions are very much reality.
Emily 27:39
Yes, yeah. So sometimes in mid 1977, he was actually found at a Native American reservation near pyramid like in Nevada. And no one really knows why he took this 180 Mile Road Trip to Nevada, but people started calling the police
Rachel 27:59
from the reservation. Was he naked?
Emily 28:01
Because they were like, there’s this man at the lake wandering around aimlessly, and his clothes are covered in bloodstains. Oh my god, like, send someone immediately, you know,
Rachel 28:14
so I mean, at least he wasn’t naked, covered in blood, because I feel like that’s worse. Yeah. And that is immediately where my mind went.
Emily 28:22
Yeah, a grown man was just born. He’s covered. Like, I don’t know why I’m picturing. Like, why else would be covered in blood other than
Rachel 28:32
just placenta dripping off him and he’s walking around, right? As a grown ass man. So Sir, we need to cut the cord, sir. Yeah.
Emily 28:49
So the police arrive and they search his truck. And in it they find guns and a bucket full of blood. Which they were like, what the fuck? And then they realize it was cow’s blood. At least it was only cow’s blood. And he kind of said like, oh, the blood on my clothes is from hunting. And they just released him like they just find him and released him and we’re like, get out of here
Rachel 29:20
hunting. What though?
Emily 29:21
A cow or like follow up questions and like,
Rachel 29:24
you know, hunt house. I know. Farm cow. No, I don’t know. Tell me how to
Emily 29:33
farm. I know everything about farming. I’m always like, I think it’s planting time right now. Like I don’t know. Farm kid ever
Rachel 29:44
hunting What? And also, I I’m not a hunter. I do know hunters. Well, I knew hunters wives and you know, they refer to themselves as hunting widows. They just like their husbands just give up for weekends at a time and just like punch it down. Combat covering and blood. Like if your bow hunting or gun hunting or I think they just call it hunting. Probably not gun hunting gun hunting people you know gun hunting.
Emily 30:11
They don’t I’m gone hunting got covered in blood. Yeah, no, I was like what did you catch a deer?
Rachel 30:19
Catch it here? Yeah with me versus that deer in the rain.
Emily 30:26
Did you shoot a deer and then like skin it and sleep inside of its carcass and then leave it like what the fuck? Why would you be covered? Fucking Star Wars oh this is not The Revenant
Rachel 30:38
like you bring it tense you don’t need to climb inside of a tom tom like we’re not doing that here.
Emily 30:44
Exactly. But they let him go. What are you gonna do? So, Chase would go on after this incident and I’m sure people now look back and think man, I really wish they would have arrested him or something. Because On what? On December 29 of 1977. He killed his first victim. Now his first victim is like by far, the least gruesome. It was just it was a drive by shooting. Oh, yeah. So he was mad, I guess because his mom wouldn’t let him come home for Christmas. Which is sad, but like I get it also, but
Rachel 31:24
also she’s like, I’m scared. You think that I’m trying to hurt you? Yeah, you randomly walk out like, as a mother. I how was Richard? At this point?
Emily 31:38
ish in his 20s
Rachel 31:40
so he’s a 20 something year old man. I don’t want to risk seeing my son’s penis as a 20 something year old man. Unless he’s been in like a serious accident. You have to clean What’s it? Another grown woman has seen his penis. I’m out. No, I don’t want this done. I don’t want it. I don’t want to see it.
Emily 31:58
It’s on your online kid.
Rachel 32:01
I’m kind of team mom.
Emily 32:02
Yeah, on this one. Yeah, one plus, he’s a big grown man. Like, I’m afraid I don’t want him to murder me. You know, like, who knows what he’s up to? Well, so Ambrose Griffin was 51. And this is chases first victim. So he was outside by his car, helping his wife bring in groceries and chase just drove by and killed him. And so unfortunately, because of the nature of this, where it’s just like a random drive by No One, really. I mean, he wasn’t identified as the murderer for this until way later, you know? Sure. It’s almost like remember the Boston Strangler to where it’s like after the fact they like realized later that there were these other kills. So way later, they realized that he had actually killed Ambrose Griffin because they’re able to, like match his gun to the bullet or something like that. But this first kill was really just like, a rage situation. Like he was mad and just killed somebody. Yeah. But apparently, it must have triggered something in him. Because although he waited for weeks to kill again. He like that was his first kill. And then after that, he’s like, awesome. I’m on this. Okay. So there was really no order to how he selected his victims. Other than this is fucking scary to me, because randomized killings in the home are horrifying.
Rachel 33:37
But yeah,
Emily 33:38
he would literally just walk through neighborhoods and try doorknobs. And if they were locked, he saw it as a sign that he wasn’t welcome there. And so he went like forcefully break into homes, he would just try the door handle. And if it was locked, he was like, okay, not this one. So moving along chronologically, on January 11, another random violent act, he asks his neighbor for a cigarette, and then forcibly restraints her until she gives him the entire pack. So he’s obviously like, devolving, like even people that he knows he’s like, give me your cigarettes. And then like, Oh, I’m gonna hold you until you give me the whole
Rachel 34:18
bag. Right? She’s like, Man, you can just have it like I can get more.
Emily 34:22
Yeah, exactly. So then, you know, he attempts to enter home. Her doors are locked. So he just like goes to the backyard and walks away. You know, like, again, he’s just seeing locked doors as signs of not welcome unlocked doors are an invitation. So while he was wandering around one night, he encountered a girl named Nancy Holden, who he had attended high school with and he like, attempted to get a ride with her somewhere. But she was super frightened by his appearance and and refused. And so he angry from that, like walk down the street and when And tried the doorknob of a young married couple. And what it was open, but they weren’t home. So he just went in and stole some of their valuables urinated into a drawer of their infants clothing dedicated on their son’s bed. And then the couple came home while he was in the house, but the husband attacked him like, what are you doing in my house? And he escaped and ran away. So he wasn’t in control. So he kind of like just booked it out of there. Not before Of course, pooping in someone’s bed, which is, you know,
Rachel 35:36
the worst version of Goldilocks, like the Brothers Grimm version of so bad. Yeah, exactly. Jess, right.
Emily 35:46
So he continued to attempt to enter homes until he came across the home of David and Teresa Wallen. And so David was at work. And Teresa, who was three months pregnant, was in the middle of taking out the garbage, and so therefore, she had left her front door unlocked. So chase surprised her in the home and shot her three times once in the hand, which was a defensive wound, and twice in the head, killing her. And this was the same gun that was used to kill Ambrose Griffin. So that’s how they connected him. But this eventually, my here’s the really icky part. After killing her, he dragged her body to the bedroom and raped it post-mortem while repeatedly stabbing it with a butcher knife. And then, when he had finished, he carved the corpse open, and removed several of her internal organs using a bucket to collect the blood. And then he took it into the bathroom to bathe. Then there’s more No, then he sliced off her nipple. No, not the nipples stay away. And drink her blood using an empty yogurt container as a drinking glass. Ruined yogurt for me.
Rachel 37:16
He said, like, don’t eat or drink things right now. Oh, yeah, you’re drinking.
Emily 37:26
And then of course, because it wasn’t horrific enough. Before leaving, he went into the yard, found a pile of dog feces, returned to the house and stuffed it into her mouth and throat. Ah,
Rachel 37:44
yeah, this guy has got to be so far removed from reality at this point, because there’s just no way. Like, okay, you think you’re a vampire? You have this delusion. You have to drink blood. You have to you know rape women. Fine. Not fine, but like I can see the logic. There like the paranoia. Yeah.
Emily 38:08
Blood to replace the blood in my body. But like,
Rachel 38:11
right,
Emily 38:11
where’s the rest of it? Right. Why the kids like that? No, yeah, why the right now? Like, you know
Rachel 38:20
why? Yeah.
Emily 38:22
Oh, oh, so so so sadly, Terry’s fiance David returned home from work to find his fiance mutilated in their bed. And in a state of shock, he ran next door to a neighbor’s house where they called the police. The first officer to arrive at the scene was so horrified by what had been done to Terry that He later said he had nightmares for months following the murder horse which I’m not surprised by
Rachel 38:54
No, I’m surprised it’s not one of those scenes where they just immediately puke Yeah, you know, like you hear about those for the officers go in. They survey the scene and they’re just like, oh, like I probably would have Yeah, for sure.
Emily 39:07
So FBI agent Robert wrestler who is best known for his work in criminal profiling, and is credited with coining the term serial killer was contacted right away to consult on what kind of fucking killer This was and like how someone could do this, like this is a horrific crime. What is happening, you know, and so he came up with a profile for the killer. And here was his profile. white male, aged 25 to 27 years old, thin, undernourished appearance. Residents will be extremely slovenly and unkempt and evidence of the crime will be found at the residence, history of mental illness and will have been involved in use of drugs will be a loner who does not associate with males or females and will probably spend a A great deal of time in his own home where he lives alone. unemployed, possibly receives some form of disability money. If residing with anyone, it would be his parents. However, this is unlikely. No prior military record high school or college dropout, probably suffering from one or more forms of paranoid paranoid psychosis. Produced by damn money, right?
Rachel 40:26
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I was wondering how many when you’re talking about him being thin and under nourished, my man keeps going to if his primary diet is
Emily 40:36
blood, it’s not actually gonna Yeah, nourish you at all
Rachel 40:40
right? Like, How sick is he? Like, obviously mentally, but how physically sick is he?
Emily 40:46
Right? Well, and I’m sure you’ve seen pictures like from his mug shot, he’s got the like sallow face and cheekbones and just like Google a dark circle eyes. And so if you see the picture of him in high school compared to him how he is when he’s arrested like 10 years later or whatever. It’s shocking. It’s like shockingly drastic that he looks so
Rachel 41:09
bad. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I definitely see. He totally looks undernourished. Oh my god. What? I found the high school was the cute one where he’s like smiling. Yeah, look up, cutie. You know who he looks like in that picture? He looks like I’m Kenneth from 30 rock. Oh, he is like a handsome. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that’s so crazy. Yeah. Oh, buddy.
Emily 41:41
I know. fat.
Rachel 41:43
Don’t drink blood. It’s like those commercials in the 90s where they’re all this is your brain on drugs. Man, meth just you? Yeah, don’t be a vampire. It is not sexy.
Emily 41:56
This is what blending up organs and blood does to you. That agent wrestler classified the killer as disorganized. Because no planning is involved in the murders. And as I said, he knew that he was likely seriously mentally ill and cannot distinguish right from wrong. So this is of course, you know, the exact opposite of what an organized killer would do, which is, you know, like stalking their victims for months beforehand, or, you know, having a reasonably high intelligence and knowing what’s right from wrong. So I do feel like that’s an important distinction with him. Not that it’s okay that he did it. But like, he really truly is one of those serial killers where it’s like, he was very, very, very sick, like a very sick human who should never have been removed from a facility. Like, made a mistake. Yeah, people. Okay.
Rachel 42:52
Yeah, absolutely.
Emily 42:54
So oh god on January 23 1978. Two days after killing Teresa Whalen. Richard purchased two puppies from a neighbor, which he then killed and drank the blood of and then went ahead and left the bodies on the neighbor’s front lawn. So it’s like, okay, you’re mentally ill and then you need to drink the blood of animals or people, but also vindictive, a little bit to be like, and I want you to know that I killed your puppies.
Rachel 43:26
It’s, it’s just all the things that I hate. Like, leave the kids alone. Leave the puppies alone. Leave the pregnant ladies alone. It’s like every if you had a bingo board, in essence, yeah, in essence, bingo board. Like nipples effort. Puppies,
Emily 43:47
kiddies. Pregnant women. Yeah.
Rachel 43:52
Yeah, small children. Like, just don’t get Bingo. No, that’s it. Try not try not that goal is to lose at vago. Okay, go ahead.
Emily 44:01
It’s like golf. You want the least amount of things. Okay.
Rachel 44:04
Yes.
Emily 44:05
So on January 27. Richard committed his final murder, which qualifies also as a mass murder because those more than you know, a couple people, so he entered the home of 38 year old Evelyn marathe. marathe marathe MIROTH mir off. I don’t know. She was babysitting her 22 month old nephew, David. Oh, no. And also right. And also present in the home was her six year old son Jason. Bingo again. And Dan Meredith, who was a neighbor who had come over to check on Evelyn. So Evelyn, which I’m like, Huh, especially when you hear this next part, Evelyn was in the bath while Dan watch the children. So I’m like, you asked your male neighbor to come over so you could be Like, if you didn’t give Maybe, yeah.
Rachel 45:04
I mean, yeah, but maybe he was just like, Look, I can tell you’re stressed. You’re taking on too much like, why don’t you go take a bath? I’ve got the kids. Yeah. Which by the way I find incredibly sexy. Like, listen, men. Women are not that complicated. Just take something off of our plates
Emily 45:21
and then tell us to go take care of ourselves like to tell us we’re pretty bring us a Starbucks. And let us take a bath while you do the dishes. Yeah,
Rachel 45:30
well, you do housework and child rearing. And we listen to murder podcasts and remind ourselves while we’re not trying to drown you because she’s so great.
Emily 45:41
Yes. So like I said, Evelyn was in the bath. Dan was watching the children and he went into the front hallway when Richard chase entered the home, and he immediately shot Dan in the head at point blank range with his 22 handgun. And this killed him. And again, this was the same gun used in the Griffin and the Wallen murders. So chase then turned the corpse over and stole Dan’s wallet and car keys. Jason, the six year old, ran to his mother’s bedroom, where chase fatally shot him twice in the head at point blank range, on the way to killing Jason. He also shot David in the head, the baby. Yeah. He then entered the bathroom and fatally shot Evelyn. Once in the head. He dragged her corpse onto the bed, and he simultaneously sodomized her and drank her blood from a series of slices to the back of her neck. Oh, God, you guys. I’m so sorry. Medical Examiners reported an inordinate amount of semen in the corpses rectum indicating an unusual amount that’s in quotes of ejaculations disgusting.
Rachel 47:12
So I don’t have words like those of you who are patrons watching the sun video. I’m sorry that my face is just like, scrunched up and like,
Emily 47:23
I can’t. I can’t with the words. This is the worst. It’s the worst. Disgusting. Yeah, so bad. Once he finished he stabbed her at least half a dozen times in the anus. The knife penetrating her uterus. Ah, he stabbed her in a series of vital points on the body, which caused blood from her internal organs to pool into her abdomen, which he then sliced open and drained into a bucket. He then consumed all of the blood. Which is like when you do the like gallon of milk challenge and it’s like you can’t and you’re just get them. And you’re like, how? Yeah, that may have been like, I mean, he
Rachel 48:10
must have thrown some of it up. That’s what they do with a gallon of milk challenge. Nobody can do it. Everybody throws off. You
Emily 48:15
know, part of me thinks that’s like hyperbole that they’re like all of the blood. You know, like how Barney has like, yeah, multiple liters of blood.
Rachel 48:23
So I mean, don’t try it. This isn’t like the fucking time pod challenge. Like also stupid. I
Emily 48:29
dare see a challenge come across on
Rachel 48:32
a blood challenge. Fact you guys don’t want that? No, no Gen Z No. Now Gen Z.
Emily 48:40
Get your hands off of the blood bucket. Okay, so he’s not finished yet. Unfortunately. He then went to retrieve David’s corpse.
Rachel 48:55
Know the baby.
Emily 48:56
He took it to the bathroom and split the baby’s skull open in the bathtub and consumed some of the brain matter. outside a six year old girl with him Jason had a play date knocked on the door now which startled Chase and he fled the residence. What am I trying to say here? Okay, so he fled the residence but the girl alerted the neighbor, a neighbor and the neighbor broke into the home where he discovered the bodies and called the authorities. Now, upon entering the home, police discovered that Richard chase had left perfect handprints and perfect imprints of the soles of his shoes in Evelyn’s blood
Rachel 49:43
was definitely disorganized. He’s not paying attention to covering up the evidence.
Emily 49:47
Yeah, exactly. Chase did take David’s corpse home with him. Oh god. I forgot about this part, where he chopped off his penis and Use it as a straw through which he sucked the blood out of the body. Brain won’t think I can only say the words that are on the page because my brain is shut off at the moment other Yeah. Yeah, because it’s still not done. I apologize. He then slice the corpse open, consumed several internal organs and made smoothies out of others. Finally, disposing of the corpse at a nearby church was just seems like a kick in the face like oh, a church. Awesome. I’ll put the body of baby here. Ah. Okay, I think that’s the end of all the really, really disgusting parts. But it was really really bad. Okay, that was rough, rough one. A huge manhunt consisting of 65 police officers began. They walked the streets, they questioned passer bys, they knocked on doors. They asked if anyone had seen a thin, disheveled looking Caucasian man, likely with bloodstains on his clothing. But actually, they didn’t find him right away, which is kind of surprising because he had stolen Dan the neighbor’s car. So it’s kind of like it takes a while to find him still. But five days after the mass murder, Nancy Holden, who if we remember is the classmate that he had bumped into earlier. Oh, yeah, I heard this FBI profile on the news and contacted the police and said she thought that Richard Chase was the killer. So she gave them the name. And when they ran a background check on him, they obviously came across the registration of a 22 caliber handgun. And, you know, records of him having been in a mental institution. So all these things on the profile are starting to get checked off. So detectives and a team of police go to his apartment, and they asked to speak with him, but he refuses, which I’m like, just say fuck you let us in. Like
Rachel 52:01
he’s out. Nothing. They’re not so listed. What are you doing? I
Emily 52:07
don’t want any Jesus today. They already bought Girl Scout cookie. Yeah, so instead, they get sneaky, sneaky, and they hide down the hallway and wait for him to leave. And then they arrest him in the hall. Once he leaves the apartment. He actually left the apartment carrying a blood stained box. Watch his parka and issues blood stained like he’s very obvious about it, which again, like he can’t determine right from wrong. So he’s like, what’s the big deal? I have blood all over me. It’s not a big deal. Right again, thankfully he had on clothes. But inside the apartment once they got inside were pieces of shredded blood soaked wallpaper, and the blood stained 22 with which he had committed the murders. He claimed that the bloody wallpaper and gun were a result of his killing several dogs. But when they performed a search of his person, they found he was carrying Dan Meredith’s wallet. So they’re like, sorry, it’s not dogs don’t carry wallets. Okay.
Rachel 53:23
And also you same Don’t worry. I just killed a bunch of dogs. Still not okay. It’s awesome status. It’s us, says the kids say suspicious. It’s major success. And gross. Yeah, eat now, you’ll get it. You’ll find it.
Emily 53:45
I won’t. I’ll find it just as fast as I find how to say infirmary. Send it right,
Rachel 53:51
you did it for Mary.
Emily 54:04
So detectives also found that all of chases eating and drinking utensils were soaked in blood. on the counter was the blender that he used to make his smoothies quote unquote. It was caked in coagulated blood, and the rotting matter of internal organs. And inside the refrigerator, police found several animal body parts wrapped in aluminum foil, David’s brains in a Tupperware container and pieces of his body wrapped in saran wrap. They also found several of Evelyn and Teresa’s internal organs and on another counter or several pet collars. On his kitchen table he had spread out numerous diagrams depicting various aspects of human anatomy
Rachel 54:59
and Last night studying.
Emily 55:03
Last but not least, a calendar in his home had the dates of the murders marked with the word today, which does make me wonder, did he plan or did he go back retroactively and be like, this was the day I did it. Like,
Rachel 55:16
I mean, I think there was probably a premeditated aspect, but not a premeditated man.
Emily 55:23
Yeah, cuz he still just like one wandered randomly down the street. But maybe it was like a, this is the day like today is the day when I’ll need to eat again. Like, I’ll need more blood or something like maybe
Rachel 55:35
who knows. I don’t, doesn’t matter. Like there’s, there’s no words. It’s just, it’s so gross to me. Because when you’re home, you’re supposed to feel safe. And just that vulnerability, you’re walking around, you’re taking a bath. You’re letting your kids play like It’s horrifying. I know. Awful.
Emily 55:57
I know, that is the one place you’re supposed to be able to be totally safe and secure. Okay, so in early 1979, his trial began, he was charged with six counts of first degree murder. shell casings from his gun were found at Ambrose Griffin’s crime scene, so that proved he was guilty of that murder. On March 24, the body of David the infant nephew was found discarded in a box by some garbage bins and the church parking lot. It was the church janitor who discovered the body and called the police. And it was very difficult for them to identify the body because of what he had done to it. But it eventually did help. You know, with in the trial, he did plead not guilty by reason of insanity. And, actually semi astonishingly, his insanity plea was rejected. But yeah, it’s it’s like if anyone’s if anyone, like come up?
Rachel 57:06
Yeah, yeah. I always think if they don’t try to cover it up, they’re more likely to get the insanity plea. Right.
Emily 57:11
Well, and he like literally has diagnose schizophrenia. Like, yeah, come on. So the jury, the jury found chase guilty on all counts, and he was sentenced to death by electric chair and would await his execution at San Quentin State Prison. As part of his work with the FBI Behavioral Sciences unit. Now the BYU agent wrestler along with FBI agent john Conway went to interview chase in prison. rustler says that just the walk from the prison entrance to the interview room where they would meet with Chase made him feel super uneasy. And even though he had to visit dozens of prisons before he described this one as an oppressive and frightening experience, and that he felt that when he walked in, he was going beyond the point of no return. ominous Wow.
Rachel 58:13
Yeah,
Emily 58:13
I’m seeing chase for the first time immediately reminded Wrestler of the ghost from A Christmas Carol because he had like the leg irons on and he had that ghoulish appearance. But he was most struck by chases eyes. And this is a quote, I’ll never forget them. They were like those of the shark in the movie Jaws, no pupils, just black spots. These were evil eyes that stayed with me long after the interview, I almost got the impression that he couldn’t really see me that he was just seeing through me just staring. Chase did not show any aggression toward the agents. As it turned out, he was on some strong downers in prison. He admitted to all of the murders, but said that he had no choice in the matter. He said he had to commit them to stay alive. He was also deathly afraid of Nazis and UFOs apparently, and that came up multiple times in their interview. And at one point, he stuck his hands in his pocket and pulled out a handful of macaroni and cheese from you have prison lunch? Sure, yeah. He was convinced that the guards at the prison were Nazis who are trying to kill him. And so he asked wrestler, the FBI agent to take the food and test it for poison. He’s like, Oh, my God, I’m meeting with FBI agents today. This is a perfect opportunity.
Rachel 59:44
It just goes to show you that like, I don’t think this guy could have been rehabilitated. And I don’t think prison was the right place for him. I think he needed to be institutionalized because that paranoia was the same as with him. A mom when he dies, mom was trying to poison her,
Emily 1:00:03
say 100%. Well, and here’s the final piece of the story and another cue as to why prison was not the right place for him. All of the inmates that he was in prison with knew about what he had done and the type of person he was. And they all kind of like ganged up to convince him, he should kill himself. They were like, you should just kill yourself, you know, or whatever. And on December 26 1980, he was found dead in his cell, due to an overdose of antidepressants that he had been hoarding. He was only 30 years old. Wow. And that’s the horrific, terribly disgusting, awful story of this vampire of Sacramento, Richard. Ah, you’re welcome, everybody. Well,
Rachel 1:00:52
the shit we didn’t ask for and never will again. Yeah, no, I mean, great job with the story. But like, I know, this was my face. Yeah, yeah.
Emily 1:01:05
So what do you have for us something like? Dammit,
Rachel 1:01:10
wow. Okay. So I’m going back to a tiny town today. Thanks to my friend Amanda for her second recommendation. So apparently, she went to Georgia on a recent babymoon with her husband. And she does she sent me the link and she’s like, we didn’t have time to go see this. And I’m like, you’re in a fucking baby. Boom. And then you’d have time to go see some creepy shit. It’s okay. If you’re forgiving. It’s totally fine. Amanda, thank you for the recommendation. I love that you listen, you’re the best. So good luck with your baby. Good luck with baby number two. It’s a boy. He’s not a serial killer. We had a baby boy. I mean, but seriously, we had a baby boy Summerville. Georgia has a population of about 4500 people. And since my only reference for anything geographical in Atlanta, in Georgia is Atlanta. It’s about 75 miles from Atlanta.
Emily 1:02:11
Okay. Southwest East north.
Rachel 1:02:13
I did not clarify your like backup. I’m in Colorado. So the mountains are West. That is that’s all I know. The rest. Somerville is actually closer to Chattanooga, Tennessee than it is to Atlanta. So it’s the South. Alas, if we were to travel to this little town, I would want to check out the historic Somerville train depot and turntable. It is one of the only working turntables in the southeast us and they do fall festivals that start in October which you know we are basic bitches we love our flannel and our leggings and our boots and our Starbucks pumpkin spice latte all the way salted
Emily 1:02:52
caramel mocha. Boom. Another thing we disagree on.
Rachel 1:02:56
Hey, yes. Oh, yeah, I do love a caramel macchiato
Emily 1:03:00
with a turntable. Like,
Rachel 1:03:03
I don’t know what
Emily 1:03:03
got like from a Do you know,
Rachel 1:03:05
it’s like, like, tearing the train. Look, I didn’t research this
Emily 1:03:10
question. Like the thing where you shift the track.
Rachel 1:03:13
It must be Yeah, you’re like, I can Google it. The fish leave the action, you’re like fuck off. You can out fish the ocean. Anyhow, we would also be to visit paradise gardens, which is an art attraction created by Howard Finster, who was a pretty famous folk artist. So essentially, it’s an outdoor Art Museum. There are buildings and sculptures and all sorts of stuff. The gardens themselves were built out of found materials, like toilet seats, jewelry, bicycle frames, it’s actually kind of cool. So I will post a picture on our Instagram. And those are really the only two open attractions in Somerville that aren’t just like chillin at a park
Emily 1:04:04
somewhere. Going to Walmart and walking around for two hours. That’s what we did in Seward, Nebraska.
Rachel 1:04:09
100% I don’t even know that they have like, I don’t know. But I went full fat kid and I looked at some restaurants because you know how I roll. You know that everything makes me crave tacos, so we could get them at El pueblito which is the little city and all the reviews essentially say I’m hungry Come on angry. angry. Unfortunately the one place more be curious want to go is permanently closed. And that is the site of the corpse wood Manor murders corpse wood.
Emily 1:04:43
Why seems like a self fulfilling prophecy.
Rachel 1:04:48
Maybe let’s start with a little background on our victims. Charice scatter was born October 6 1926 in Wisconsin. Not a great time. To be a gay child born in the Midwest, but I’m getting ahead of myself. Charles married his college sweetheart had probably beard helden in 1946. And they divorced very quickly afterwards. He married again in the early 50s. This time to your tie, and they have four sons together. She’s a woman, and then they separate. In the 60s, Charles was the associate director for the Loyola University of Chicago Institute for mind, drugs and behavior. He was eccentric, he would dye his hair purple or bright red, which was obviously not super common for men, even in the 60s, which was getting a little bit more liberal. Neither for hippies he had a pet monkey Allah Ross Geller.
Emily 1:05:54
You guys, why did you let me have a pet book?
Rachel 1:05:58
You remember what I had a monkey that was so weird. And he lived in a fancy mansion with incredibly ornate furniture that he bought from liquidation sale from a theater and the other EDA things that he had that he also played the harp and believed in the unity of the universe. So he was pretty progressive and 60s in Chicago. Sounds like in huh? So back up a set to 1959 Charles had hired Joey Odom to move into the mansion and help him raise his sons. But by the early 70s, as his sense grew up, and they began to leave the ornate mansion, Charles was, I don’t know why am I writing is so weird in this story, but just the purpose we wrote, Charles was in need of the kind of companionship you just can’t get from a monkey. Why? Why pass rage? His relationship with Joey Odom was known by everyone to be a little less than professional. Let’s take a beat to talk about Joey. In terms of background, he’s almost the literal opposite of Charles scoter. He dropped out of school in fifth grade and had been involved in some legal difficulties. But he had some culinary prowess and was able to bring these skills into Charles as home as housekeeper and eventual partner, my little foggy on the timeline here, so I’m not sure if Charles hired Joey and then they fell in love or if they were already in a relationship, and he hired him to make it more socially acceptable for me to live with them. I’m not sure and there’s honestly not. There’s a lot of information on Charles scatter. There’s not a ton of information on Joseph Odom. So take that with a grain of salt.
Emily 1:07:51
He was a Professor Charles was Yeah. And he had a mantra hold money like family money. Ah,
Rachel 1:07:57
I don’t think so. from Wisconsin. I think he had a pretty modest upbringing. I think he must have been a pretty professors made pretty decent money in the 50s and 60s and I think I’m thinking about my story on the family. When we were talking about how the professor’s were kind of the upper echelon. You know, they had a lot of connected wealthy friends and that was in Australia but similar time period that was also nice. Plus houses were so cheap that totally I remember he bought most of them on like, sale. Yeah, this big ass house.
Emily 1:08:31
I just I watched the Amityville documentary that just came out on Discovery plus, and they were like, they bought this house for $80,000 when it’s like this massive fucking house and I’m like,
Rachel 1:08:44
and you’re like, Fuck you, you ask. So regardless, on October 6 1976, which was Charles 50th birthday, he resigned from the University. He and Joey moved to Summerville, Georgia to live a simpler life in the Chattahoochee National Forest. They decided to move from progressive Chicago to small town, Georgia and think they’re going to be more accepted there, backwoods middle of nowhere, Georgia. Well, Joey has always dreamed on doing most of his cooking in a wood stove. And the pair lived out of a camper while they built their dream house. They laid 45,000 bricks by hand like the two of these men what I saw a picture of them like a lumberjack and it up they’re so cute. They dug trenches and installed pipes and created a chemical toilet enclosed by a brick outhouse. Like this house was a fucking labor of love. And they dumped it corpse wide manner to honor the bare trees that wanted the surrounding areas. And they moved into the first floor of their home, which contained the kitchen, dining and living rooms by the end of Summer 1977 they were definitely
Emily 1:10:02
morbid curious. Like, who’s like their trees? Let’s call the house corpse was like oh
Rachel 1:10:13
yeah, and they were into some shit so like and it’s like you can read my mind sometimes Emily, in addition to this castle in the creepy woods, the couple also built a three story, chicken house. And you know there were some chickens in the first floor. And the second floor was for canned goods and also, you know Charles and Joey’s fast Warren collections. Oh, NPS. That third floor was for the pink room, aka the pleasure. Did I mention that Charles and jelly did not just move to rural Georgia to get away from the hustle and bustle of Chicago.
Emily 1:10:58
So they wanted to be able to have their own porn Dojin pink room situation.
Rachel 1:11:05
I think they just wanted to like be to kind of open sexual beings in the woods and just be free to be whoever they want to be. Yeah, it’s like really respect.
Emily 1:11:18
We don’t need anybody else. We just need to have our own place where we can live off the land. No one even needs to hear. I mean, I get it.
Rachel 1:11:29
along with probably feeling the need to hide their relationship for many people. Tara scoter also identified as a member of the Church of Satan, so he was a member of the branch founded by Anton Beauvais, which something that now probably wouldn’t freak everyone out, but this is the 70s the late 70s, arrayed around St. tannic Yannick so that everyone would freak the fuck out. Um, like I said, he was part of the anti love Bay branch. So he didn’t so much worship Satan, as he worshiped the South. So think about Charles cutter as more of a hedonist he wanted to enjoy all of the earthly pleasures that he could, without the guilt and shame that he felt for many other religions, Sartre, and although he had that monkey, and those unique hairstyles, for the most part, people saw Charles as soft spoken people in Chicago, that for the record, when he left his job at Loyola, he saw some shit. Hey, no big deal, just to human skulls and 12,000 doses of LSD 12,000 doses.
Emily 1:12:45
So why did Loyola have that much
Rachel 1:12:49
lol, remember, he was in? Oh, yeah, that was his like. Yet he was in the Loyola University of Chicago Institute for mind, drugs and behavior. So it made sense that they would have had that stuff. Well, Mm hmm. Yeah.
Emily 1:13:08
And that the last several weeks?
Rachel 1:13:12
Well, he had been doing some government funded experience, again, late 70s with acid. So like, obviously, all of those doses were in the name of research, right. But I don’t think he was abusing LSD. I think he was probably doing more. This is editorializing just from what I read more what we call now like micro dosing the LSD and experimenting with different ways to like expand the mind. Like he really did think about himself, like an educational sort of situation, I think. Um, so, Charles and Joey started living their best lives a corporate manner with their two mastiffs. Beelzebub, and come on. That’s awesome. Yeah, but they weren’t lonely. So often, they would invite guests over for orgies in the pink room. Oh, my God. This room was in fact painted pink. And it was full of porn and whips and chains and mattresses and candles. And I’m imagining all sorts of other stuff that are just much too vanilla to
Emily 1:14:18
understand and a bowl of LSD. Can you put it in a bowl? I don’t know.
Rachel 1:14:23
Take one please. I don’t have I, I don’t. But my favorite detail about the pink room is that they have a guest book in which their visitors could sign in and write about their experience, particularly their sexual fantasies.
Emily 1:14:42
It’s like I have a friend who has one of those but it’s in our bathroom. Like, leave us a note. How’d you like your experience here. Would poop here again 10 out of 1010 out of 10
Rachel 1:14:57
aside from New York, jeez. A lot of the couples for you Time was bad taken care of course wood Manor, Charles once said he thought of the home as less than a home and felt more like a mausoleum, a tumor firing care cleaning and endless costly repairs. But don’t think for one second that they didn’t bring in some glare. Charles Charlson Joey embrace a gothic aesthetic to include the skulls that Charles had stolen from the university and a pink gargoyle from his flamboyant Chicago mansion. Charles was also into art, as you could probably guess. In fact, in early 1982, he painted his self portrait, which was him with five bullet wounds in his head and his mouth covered in duct tape. Oh, and if that was not already a very creepy self portrait, it gets a lot creepier if you think about it as foreshadowing Oh, no. Say, for about six years, that was his life, just home upkeep and sex parties, sex parties and hope upkeep. Sounds like it’s just good to say I love your food, make an HGTV show about this. Or if it’s a little too risky for the same network that has chip and Jeff,
Emily 1:16:18
it’s like, it has to probably be an HGTV Bravo collaboration.
Rachel 1:16:25
So I’m not exactly sure how Charles and Joey initially brought up their hedonistic gatherings with locals in rural Georgia. But they did in fact, invite locals over and they actually were pretty friendly with local hunters, because they had all this property in the woods and they would allow hunters shop on their property, and then they would invite them over for some respite and maybe offer them some mild kink, sign our guestbook, tell us what you’re into. And that is kind of how they built up this reputation for just being a couple of like, friendly old eccentric gay is essentially amazing. Yeah, I mean, honestly, they sound kind of fun, like, whether you’re into what they were doing sexually, or not, like, they sound like nice suits, for the most part when I hang out with them. 80 to 80 I bet they threw some really kick ass parties, like I’ll leave before they go to the pink room, but I’ll hear some of the stories, you know. Yeah. So to such rural Georgia and locals were roommates. 17 year old Kenneth Avery, Brock and 30 year old Samuel Tony West. I believe Kenneth, the 17 year old was living in Samuels trailer, but the sources I read weren’t super clear, I read a couple of different things. So it seems like young pennis was engaging sexually with Charles scoter on a pretty regular basis. Obviously, this raises some red flags for me. And so I did Google it. The age of consent in Georgia is 16. In my mind, this is still not a completely consensual relationship because of Kenneth Brock’s age. But regardless, that’s not incredibly relevant to the point of the story. Just something I’m going to put an Asterix by, you can make your own decisions, eventually, kind of brought over Samuel, the 30 year old roommate, landlord, whatever, to persuade manner, if not for the sex then for the free drugs and alcohol, which were there to encourage guests to loosen up and fulfill their sexual fantasies. So it wasn’t like we’re going to drag you without your consent. I think it is like here’s a bowl of acid. But if you want to loosen up and we’re having an orgy later, so bringing Samuel west to the party was a weird choice, as Samuel was very anti LGBTQ, and also felt that kind of was being taken advantage of due to Charles scoters h. m, which I can get on board with the second half of that. But instead of trying to convince his roommate that he was being taken advantage of by an older man, Samuel instead convince Kenneth that they should Rob Charles and Joey’s fancy Gothic mansion. That was my my editorializing. I’m not sure whose idea it was, but the two of them decide. So December 12 1982. The pair decide to put that plan into action. Again, I didn’t actually read that Samuel was the mastermind. I’m just, he’s 30 and Kenneth is 17. And they take two other teenagers with them. Who are Samuels nephew and nephews girlfriend? So I’m like, why are you an adult taking advantage of these children?
Emily 1:19:45
Whatever for that exact reason taking advantage.
Rachel 1:19:48
I mean, yeah, so Samuel and his team manages slash family members, Joey wells and Teresa Hudgens. Show up to corpse with Manor concealing instead of trying sneak in undetected the group played like they were just there to hang out with Charles and Joey like it was just a regular night. So they accepted Charles homemade wine and huffing and puffing I don’t know exactly what it was some like some jam I didn’t know they understand and research
Emily 1:20:19
spray paint
Rachel 1:20:21
something like that sounds like a very interesting way to start a robbery Let’s all get high. So the group has to the pink room with Joey Odom staying behind to clean up the main house he’s like you guys go ahead I’m gonna like tidy up from the vanity. The teenagers that they wrote down to this so Oh, Joe is the guy there is Joey wells but Joey I read it Joseph as well. But like when I looked on Find a Grave to understand more about him. It looks like he went by Joey so Joey is the partner okay? come from Belgium. So even though he was probably pretty fucked up at this point, kind of brought remembers Oh shit. We’re actually there to rob these people not go to the pink room. So he goes to his car to get a rifle and he comes back in and just immediately shoots Joe’s point blank. Oh my god. And then he shot the couple’s massive snow shot both their jobs. Meanwhile, Joey wells and Teresa Hudgens who had no idea that any of this shit was going down, nope, down out of there. They went back to the car wouldn’t start, of course, so they’re just like sitting in the car when all of this is happening. And while Kenneth the 17 year old is in the kitchen, murdering jelly and the couple’s dogs, Samuel West, the 30 year old tied up child stutter and help him at knifepoint.
Emily 1:21:50
I wonder if Kenny like kind of wanting to kill Joey to get him out of the way because Didn’t he wasn’t having an affair with Charles.
Rachel 1:21:58
You know, I think it was a known affair because they were having an open relationship. So it wasn’t like not like it was no, it wasn’t like Joey Odom was like, Huh, like they invited people over for orgies. So I wouldn’t Oh, yeah, that’s true. I wouldn’t think that that was part of it. I think it was just he was there, honestly. So the murders then bring Charles back from the pink room, which is remember it on the chicken coop, which is a different building back into the main house and begin asking him where he keeps all of his riches. But Charles sees the bodies of his partner at his dogs and can barely print him so to speak. So he’s tied to a chair to keep scooting his chair closer to their bodies. I don’t know if this is a nod to you know, the way that he was engaging in relationships with people much younger, and I would say inappropriate relationships with teenagers. I’m not trying to get to blame. But his final words, or I asked for this. And then he was shot five times in the head at close range.
Emily 1:23:13
That’s so weird that he had that painting.
Rachel 1:23:16
Yeah, super foreshadow. He and I found a picture of the painting and we’ll post it when we do our episode carousel pictures. As it turns out, most of the ornate mccobb stuff in Charles fetters home was not we’re not worth very much. It was just for show. He and Joey had chosen a life of simplicity. They’ve left most of their valuables in Chicago, and we’re living on a budget of $200. Wow.
Emily 1:23:51
I mean, I know it was the 70s 60s 70s but like, this was 82 Oh, man. I mean, I guess if you have got a garden and you built your own house, we don’t have a rent or anything. Still. Wow, that’s true.
Rachel 1:24:07
I mean, he was making his own wine
Emily 1:24:09
and a disappointment for those robbers.
Rachel 1:24:14
Yeah, and very upset that their stupid ass plan didn’t yield its intended results. KENNETH And Samuel took anything that looked like it could even be somewhat valuable and fled the scene. They were on the run for three days. They made it to Mississippi where they killed 26 year old naval officer Kirby Phelps in a robbery on afterwards, maybe due to remorse or maybe just due to realizing that there was no good way to end this. KENNETH Brock went back to Georgia and turned himself in. On December 28 1982 days later, Christmas Day, Samuel West turned himself in in Chattanooga, Tennessee, of course because of Charles And Joey’s sexual preferences and religious preferences. The trial was a shit show. They were called, quote, homosexual devil worshippers and the media in the media. They were prime targets for the budding satanic panic. They basically used the gay defense. And the the fan said and they said that Charles had spiked the line with LSE to take advantage sexually of the younger people which further record believe what you want to believe in terms of how consensual relationship between like a six year old man and a 17 year old really is. I don’t think it’s consensual again, but he did not speak the line with LSD. They tested it and regardless, he didn’t deserve to be killed, right? Obviously, Samuel West was found guilty on two counts of murder and sentenced to death. But there was some sort of juror issue leading to a retrial and he ended up with a life sentence. KENNETH Brock pled guilty and ended up with three consecutive life terms. Both men are still alive. I have been denied parole multiple times.
Emily 1:26:13
I’m glad. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I don’t like that. I’m, it sounds like the the jury and the defense attorneys and stuff. Almost were like, Oh, these victims were asking for it or like, you know, put themselves in the right in the situation to be killed.
Rachel 1:26:35
But yes, they’re gay and worship Satan. Like they weren’t having an open relationship. And the sad thing is like they didn’t worship Satan, right? Like most people in the Church of Satan don’t worship Satan. But because that’s what Satan panic. Everybody was like, Oh, my pearls, like well, at least they killed these, you know, homosexuals. Like, no, these men are fucking murderers, and it was premeditated murder. Like, if you’re just going to rob them. You don’t need a fucking gun. Right. Exactly. It’s the worst. It’s so
Emily 1:27:11
well, and Kenneth was also a homosexual and killed them, allegedly. Right. So yeah, come on.
Rachel 1:27:21
One. Think about Nick get on my therapist soapbox. Again, you would think I’d put it away after the repeat case episode. But here it is, again. Hello. So box. There’s when you villainize people for their sexual orientation. And you say it’s wrong, to be gay, it’s wrong to be trans is trying to be XYZ. Like, you are basically saying, this part of yourself that you have no control over is wrong. And it really is confusing for young brain, especially in this time, where he’s like, if he is heating up part of himself. And then in a way, I wonder if like, killing Charles is killing the gay part of himself. You know, like it fucks with people just let them love whoever they gotta love.
Emily 1:28:11
I literally just watched the Criminal Minds episode where that guy who’s gay, but whose father like told him he couldn’t be gay was killing the gay men and then like picking on their personalities or whatever,
Rachel 1:28:22
good episode. Yeah, that exact thing where he was like, I’m
Emily 1:28:25
gonna kill these gay men, because of them being gay. But like, in reality, he was gay. So yeah, I think that was some of that, like, trying to kill it out of himself. Almost.
Rachel 1:28:37
Yeah, and you hear that all the time were like super conservative, but the dress leaders are actually having, you know, sex with other people of their same gender. And it’s like, if you didn’t hate yourself so much and make other people hate themselves. So much. Like maybe you could be at a happy relationship with a man as a man and just like live your fucking life. Everybody else alone? Yeah, soapbox away. finish the story. So there was a small funeral at burps with manner in which Joey Odom’s ashes were scattered in the couple’s rose garden. Charles fetters ashes were retrieved by his sister Janet and buried in the Family Plot In Wisconsin. Oh, they didn’t get buried next to each other that said, I thought the same thing I was like I’m glad that his sister isn’t like oh, you homosexual devil Berserker. You can’t be buried in the Family Plot but also like bring me I want to be married next to his partner. Yeah, but I didn’t mention this in the story. But Joey’s parents were both dead so like there was no one there to like no one there to really like claim you know, take that. So corpse with manners chicken coop was taken by a fire on January 5 1983. And then Manor was burned down later as well. purposeful there, or I don’t think so.
Emily 1:29:56
There themselves,
Rachel 1:29:58
I think is probably just a forest. Fire. There are still parts of the manner that can be visited. Although it’s been closed as a tourist attraction. visitors have claimed that they sometimes hear gunshots barking dogs, or see the Owls of ups. glowing eyes. The dog probably the dad not the demon. Yeah, right.
Emily 1:30:18
Why does his eyes glow?
Rachel 1:30:20
Well, now he’s psycho stop, obviously. And that is the horrible story of the murders at corpse with manner.
Emily 1:30:28
Oh my gosh.
Rachel 1:30:30
Like when you’re like, is your story light hearted? I’m like, No, but it does have a mental health component and may is Mental Health Awareness Month. Right?
Emily 1:30:39
This is a very mental health focused episode and just dark. Oh, man. That’s so good. I’m so glad that Amanda, like recommended that because while I really enjoy doing stories like Richard Chase, where like it’s a story everyone kind of knows or it’s a known person. It’s also so fun to do stories. funds, maybe the wrong word, but like it’s fun to do story.
Rachel 1:31:03
Interesting. Yeah. It’s
Emily 1:31:04
interesting to learn about people that I’d never heard of before that are I’m sure not in the common vernacular of even morbid curious.
Rachel 1:31:13
Yeah. And like, just I’m gonna give our listeners the same thing that I yell at my kids, which is a quote from some random welfare, welfare, all character. He’s just looking at fighting children going, everybody loves everybody, okay? I leave you with nothing else. Just don’t be a dick.
Emily 1:31:34
Everybody love everybody. I’ll just stay in your own lane, Worry about yourself and stop worrying about everybody else. And then everyone will be much happier.
Rachel 1:31:46
If you guys story recommendation for us, hit us up on social media for Apple history pod and Instagram and tick that shoot us an email for Apple history podcast@gmail.com
Emily 1:31:57
we’d also invite you to join our Patreon we have for $5 and up patrons access to multiple different pieces of added bonus content, including AP er with horrible history. And where in the world is horrible history. So guys, that’s just like, weekly additional content. And $5 a month is like buying a Starbucks. So yeah, by your favorite Moms. I’m not a mom. Starbucks once a month and will appreciate it so much.
Rachel 1:32:34
By your favorite women who wear mom jeans.
Emily 1:32:37
My pants are so high waisted, right.
Rachel 1:32:38
So I are so cute. Yeah and $10 and that patrons not only do you get all the content to the fat, dilute level, but you get to see us on video.
Emily 1:32:48
So you get to see these mom jeans.
Rachel 1:32:51
Except for you can only see us from the top. It’s fine with it. But when we hit 20 patrons, we are going to do a live ama probably with a little bit of wine. So yeah,
Emily 1:33:03
be awesome. And please tell your friends rate reviews subscribe if you catch that. reviews and ratings are super, super helpful. Lets everybody in the podcast universe I was gonna say the podcast Gods I guess it lets the
Rachel 1:33:24
pod going with this watching you just lay to the side
Emily 1:33:29
to find my words and yeah helps the podcast Gods know that you like us and that is helpful for us to help find new folks. We want to grow them orbit curious. Army. Rachel’s like no, don’t call it.
Rachel 1:33:48
We’re not planning an army. We’re not gonna kill anyone. I’m Alicia. You know? No. Yeah, that’s why I squat down. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening.
Emily 1:33:57
Hopefully you’re horrified.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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