Home » Episodes » Episode 5 – Indonesia & San Francisco, CA (As the Crow Flies)

This week, travel with your hosts to the sunny beaches of Indonesia and San Francisco… and then learn about the things nightmares are made of! First, Emily covers the deadliest volcanic eruption in human history (and the aftermath) and then Rachel shares one of the most highly-debated cases of Stockholm Syndrome with the kidnapping of Patty Hearst. Hopefully you’re horrified!

Content/Trigger Warnings: Sexual assault


Emily 0:14
Welcome to horrible history. I am Emily Barlean.

Rachel 0:18
And I’m Rachel Everett-Lozon. This is Episode Five. So we’re hoping by now you know what the show is about. But in case you’re tuning in for the first time, hey, this is a podcast where we combine our love of travel with our love of all things horrible. And history.

Emily 0:35
Oh, yeah, yeah. And we’re morbidly curious. So each week, Rachel, and I pick a new place that we would love to travel to, you know, we’re all grounded right now, because of COVID. So this is supplementing that. And we dig into the history that no one really likes to talk about, you know, the murder, the Colts, the natural disasters.

Rachel 0:56
But we’d like to talk about it.

Emily 0:59
No one likes to talk about it except for us.

Rachel 1:02
And all of you, thanks. This week, we’re going to be traveling to Indonesia and San Francisco, apparently, we’ve been thinking about beaches.

Emily 1:11
Seriously, I could use a beach right now. Partially because it’s like cold as fuck winter in Nebraska. But also, I just really need to relax. I had a really long day, tell me what happened. I know, I know, we’re not usually we’re not going to banter as much anymore, because we need to get to the horrible, but I have to tell you about the craziest two hours of my life that I’ve had in the most recent like time of the world of try, and I thought I was gonna do a spit take. So go on. So my little brother bought a house. And so today, we got to go to Lincoln, which is like the capital of Nebraska FYI. And see his new house for the first time and like we took him some furniture and helped him unpack and things like that. So we put in an order for groceries at hyvee, which is a local grocery store. And you know, we were going to curbside pickup COVID whatnot. So we wanted to pick up groceries for him and give him like kind of a housewarming, you know, stock, his fridge stock, his cupboard, that kind of thing. So I put in this order, I go to put it in at like 2pm. And it says it’ll be ready for pickup between five and six. Like it already was pretty far out where I was like, that’s oddly far out already. So my dad and I get in the car five, and we go to pick up the groceries, and we pull up to IV. And the line is three wide and like 12 deep. Oh, my dad, and we were like, Oh my god, this is terrible. So we sit in the line. detritus is fine. Like we’re chatting, you know, it’s not a big deal, because we’re, we’re enjoying each other’s company. But we slowly creep forward and we get to the front of the line. Yes, like, okay, we’re here. We sit there. This kid comes over, you know, they only have fuckin teenagers working at these things. It’s awful. So this teenager with floppy hair comes over. And he’s like, what’s the name on the order? And I told him, and he left. And I came back. And he’s like, the names Molly has seen, right? And I was like, no, that’s not even close. So I told them again, and he left. And then we didn’t ever see him again. And then another guy came up. And he asked for the name. And my dad’s like, bar lean, like leaning on a bar. And the kid was like, Okay, we’ll be right back. And he goes away. And then he never seen again. And then another kid comes over, and he’s like, sorry, what was the name on this order. And we told him, and he left. And then he was never seen again. Oh, my God, by this point, we have been sitting in this line for an hour and 45 minutes 35 of which were at the very front of the line, like we were the next car we should have gotten. So all these other cars are coming and going and getting their stuff and we’re not my dad and I are sitting there getting more and more frustrated. Like at one point, my dad got so frustrated that he thought he was having not really but he was like his back started to spasm, probably from like sitting in the line for too long. And then he was like, No, I do not feel right. And I was like, I swear to God, if you have to go to the ER and we have to leave this line. To invest IV, we will take it for everything it’s worth. I said that at least two times. I was like I if this is not our order. I’m suing hyvee it was never order. So eventually my dad gets out of the car and he goes and he like walks into the little hut and he’s like, What the hell’s going on? Where’s our order? We’ve been sitting here for an hour and 45 minutes and we he actually used the podcast as an excuse. He was like, we have an appointment to get to at 8pm and we’re gonna be late if we don’t leave right now because I was like panicking. I knew I needed to come back and you know, record and The kid like shouts at my dad is like we’re doing the best we can. And then we’re three hours behind. Three hours behind. Oh my God, for there are people in this line who have been sitting there since 3pm. It’s now 610. Like, we’ve been sitting there for almost two hours. And we were just like, you fuckin couldn’t told us that, yeah, we would have left or when we at least got up to this point in the line, like you couldn’t have come over and said, Hey, you know, we’re having we’re really behind. So you can wait here, but it might be a couple hours. No, they just kept coming over and making it seem like we were next. And like getting our name and then leaving. Oh, my gosh, it was so frustrating. And so then the kids like, we can doordash it to you, which my dad is like, doesn’t know what doordash is because he lives in small town.

And so he’s like, I don’t know what doordash is, what is that? And he was like, it’s like a delivery service. And he’s like, well, we live in David’s city, and you’re not going to deliver 60 miles from here. So I finally I’m like, let’s just have him deliver to Jesse’s house. Like, that’s where it’s going anyways. So we like solved it, but none of the groceries are there yet. Who knows if they’ll ever arrive like it’s $150 worth of groceries like, Oh, my God, it was so stressful. And then we get in line at Popeye’s because my brother’s been talking up these like, the sandwich from Popeyes. Okay, it was really good. So we get into line, and we order and we get up to the window, and they give us our drinks, and then they’re like, the sandwiches are gonna be about eight minutes, because they’re still on the fryer. Is that okay? And my dad was literally like, no. The poor kid in the window looks so shocked. Because like, normally people are like, Yeah, no problem, right? Like, who’s gonna be troubled by waiting eight minutes, but we just wait in line for two hours. And so we were like, We just waited in line at hyvee for two hours and didn’t get our groceries. So we’re just we’re not wanting to wait anymore. And he was like, Well, I’m so sorry. I’ll take 10% off of that. So yay, Popeye’s boo hyvee. It was very frustrating. And like, I’m not a patient human being by any means. And so it was a test of my,

my strength. And I, it sounds like,

Rachel 7:21
the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Yeah, no, but that, at least at Popeye’s, which isn’t just called the sandwich because I have to have the sandwich.

Emily 7:34
It’s so crispy. It’s like a crispy chicken. It’s like a huge breast of chicken. The chicken voice Yeah, I will say my brother was like, get the spicy version. He was a little too spicy for me. And I love spicy food. Okay, so I would get the normal regular.

Rachel 7:51
I will I have a Papa is really close to me. Actually. I at least Popeyes told you. It was going to be an eight minute wait, and didn’t just assume you were going to be fine with waiting. I’m with you. I would have by that point. I

Emily 8:07
have a very tiny bladder. I would have had to pee for sure. Yeah, so it would have been terrible. There was this guy sitting in his truck like along the edge in the parking lot. And we kind of thought like he wasn’t in the drive up line where you’re supposed to go and we’re like this asshole he’s trying to gain the system like he’s sitting here he’s just gonna cut in front of all of us but he was sitting there the whole time that we were in line. So then we were like, is he some sort of manager that’s just like sitting in his warm car and he’s an asshole or whatever. When my dad finally got out of the car and went to the like what the hell is going on this guy got out to and like stood up on the edge of his car and was on his truck and was talking to us and basically the guy goes yeah, you’re gonna want to doordash and I’ve been here since four oh my god I just was like I can’t I have a headache now because I’m so I was so frustrated

Rachel 8:58
Yeah, do you know what I think is going to make you feel better what horribleness all that hard ability not a word but I love it it’s a weird if we will it into being because you know what? I didn’t have any sort of waiting like that today but I also didn’t have a delicious chicken sandwich so let’s fucking do this portability own

Emily 9:26
Yeah, let’s do this. So I am going first this week and I am going to be traveling to Indonesia. Hell yes. Oh my gosh. So I’ve never been to Indonesia Have you? I never have no no I didn’t think either of us had but so like for a little geography lesson. You know how much I love geography.

Rachel 9:46
One of our gaping lapses in knowledge just like measuring

Emily 9:50
measuring man seriously talked about gaping you know lapse of knowledge. I did not know any of this. Indonesia is a country in Southeast Asia and ocean Piano between the Indian and Pacific Oceans, which we all know where that is obviously. No sure. But so here’s what I definitely didn’t know it consists of more than 17,000 Islands 17,000 How is that possible? That’s what the internet said. Okay, you’re always right. I mean, I believe it. Yeah, I’m sure some of its like little tiny islands. I also read an article that even said, quote, Indonesia doesn’t even know how many islands it has. Like, it’s just chock full basically. So one of these islands, you know, like New Guinea and Sumatra and Borneo, and like Balis, you know, in Indonesia. So I would like to travel to Bali, that’s for sure. We are traveling nearish to Bali, we’re traveling to sumbawa Island, which is like about 200 miles away as the crow flies. So the crew, it’s in Nebraska. I’ve heard it before, it just sounds a little too distinguished for this podcast. Well, you know, as the crew, as well. So, you know, this podcast is distinguished and is meant to be driven by us visiting locations that we want to go to. So I just wanted to reinforce that. I definitely want to go to sumbawa Island, like not well known, but I would go there if I had the opportunity because it is fucking gorgeous, like incredible beaches, coral reef, you know, like crystal clear water and lush forest and like surfing, which I can’t do, but I like to watch that kind of stuff. Like, yeah, it sounds like a much better experience than the last time I was in Asia. Let’s just say that. So a story for another day. Yes, a long story. But I went to Beijing a year ago or so two years ago, I guess now and I went with my ex friend. It was a kind of disaster, but I got to see the Great Wall of China and I got to eat ox penis, which was disgusting.

Rachel 12:04
Yeah. At least you can say you’ve tried it, I guess. I guess so. All right. Tell me your story about the beautiful beach, go back to your happy place. And then tell me all the horrible shit that happened there.

Emily 12:15
So while we are technically heading into the belly of the beast, and heading to the island of sumbawa I could technically go anywhere in Indonesia with this story because the event is so massive that it infected the entire country, not just one island. Are you excited yet?

Rachel 12:36
I am so excited. I have literally no idea. I’m assuming some sort of like bombing or natural disaster, but I don’t know.

Emily 12:45
I was just gonna ask them. Do you have any guesses? Okay. drumroll please. Today, I’m going to tell you about the eruption of Mount Tam Bora in 1815. The most powerful deadliest volcanic eruption in human history. Fuck,

Rachel 13:09
I am so excited. You know, My son is obsessed with volcanoes. It’s one of his favorite things.

Emily 13:16
I love volcanoes like I am particularly fascinated, and equally terrified by volcanoes. And lots of things that are my quote unquote worst fear. So I was actually talking to my dad, not in the car at hyvee, but recently about super volcanoes. And we were talking about super volcanoes mainly because we were talking about how it’s 2020. And so we’re like, well, wouldn’t be surprised at the supervolcano under Yellowstone erupted this year, and just like ended the world beyond par for 2020. Right. And so talking about the super volcano, took me down a research path, which is the most fun that really like chilled me to the bone. Like even just, just thinking about this supervolcano in Yellowstone is fucking terrifying. It’s so scary. Oh my gosh, it’s terrifying.

Rachel 14:10
I intentionally avoid those kinds of stories, because I don’t want to obsess about them. Yeah,

Emily 14:18
I won’t get into the Yellowstone one because it’ll take me down like the path of no return. I’m pretty sure but essentially, like big ass volcano, 1000 times bigger than any normal volcano. If it erupted, it would cover all the surrounding states in three feet of ash, like,

Oh my god,

it’s crazy. And okay, talk about 2020 this supervolcano in Yellowstone, which I know is not what we’re talking about, but just bear with me. It is erupted three times in the history of the earth, won like 2 million years ago, once 1.4 million years ago, and then like 680,000 years ago, so if you can do math, which we can all do, For us, again, that’s about every 600,000 years. And as I just noted, we’re about 80,000 years overdue. so fantastic. There’s still a few weeks left in 2020. Let’s just try not to jinx ourselves. Only mildly terrifying.

So moving on.

We’re gonna be talking about a whole different terrifying event. And so before I really like dive into telling you about Mount tambores explosion, and then I provide a little volcano education, because why not is a history research, whatever podcast so please don’t take a nap. I promise this will be helpful to know. Got it. So I don’t know about you. But when I think of a volcano, I think of like a mountain that has a smoky smokes coming out, coming out of the top. And then this folks I love that like slowly spills down the mountain and moves like a snail and like you easily outrun even by someone like me, who makes it a point never to run, you know? Yes, that’s what I think of when I think of a volcano. And there are certainly volcanoes like that. But volcanologists, which is a super cool job that I’m like, I want to be a volcanologist. They have identified nine classifications of volcano intensity. I’m gonna run through them quickly. They’ll have cool names also, which I kind of love. And they’re also stupid because they have nine levels, but it goes from level zero to level eight, which is like confusing to me. But so ringing in at level zero is something called the effusive volcano. And this is a volcano that’s basically quote unquote, continuously erupting.


I guess it probably doesn’t even like, maybe it only comes out enough that it like, hardens before it spells out or something. I don’t know. I didn’t research that because it doesn’t really matter. level one. Level One is gentle. Level Two is explosive. Level Three is catastrophic. level four is cataclysmic. level five is pero says MC pero pero para seismic pero seismic does not have an accident.

Rachel 17:19
Fuck, I don’t know. I was gonna joke about how the sound like the different levels of orgasm. But then you hit me with a spelling question and you just threw off my group. We’re gonna

Emily 17:30
say parrot seismic. And maybe it’s wrong. It’s pa ROXYSMI si pero.

That’s MC.

I’m gonna say seismic. So. So you’ve heard of like Mount Vesuvius and like Mount St. Helens, right? These are parasites. Those are only level five. Then there’s level six, which is colossal. Then there’s level seven, which is super colossal. And level eight is mega colossal. So the top two levels are the levels that are basically the kind of things that they make, like apocalyptic movies about and they’re also the level of volcano that God willing, none of us will ever experience because they crazy. In fact, they be crazy. Okay, so in fact, the vast majority of super colossal and mega colossal eruptions that have taken place since the earth was formed have taken place in like 30 million BC. Like, okay, millions and millions and millions of years ago, back when it was like that time when I think of the Earth is in turmoil anyways, you know, like the dinosaurs. And then they were dying and like Pangea, whatever, so I can meteors Yeah, all the things doesn’t surprise me. Right? Like it seems normal that they would have these like massive volcanoes. But there has been one eruption in the last 250 years. That falls into the super colossal rating, which is level seven of a, and you guessed it, it’s the one we’re talking about today. The eruption of Mount Tambora in Indonesia. PS Yellowstone is mega colossal level eight. So if that baby erupts, it’s gonna be worse than everything I’m about to share. So enjoy the nightmares. Great, let’s do it. So here’s what happened with tanpura. In 1815, Tambora was the tallest peak in a land of cloudy summit’s it towered above the clouds at 14,000 feet or almost three miles. And it had been dormant for a long time. So the mountain was actually considered a home to the gods. And they had villages all at the side of the slopes. And farmers grew rice and coffee and pepper in the valleys. So on April 5 1815,

Rachel 19:55
it’s like it’s birthday. Not 1815 but April 5, you know when you hear up And you’re like, Oh, it’s my birthday. But that’s my son’s birthday.

Emily 20:03
Okay. I don’t know why, but I thought Abraham Lincoln. I have no idea what he was. Why do we have this obscure? My my son Lincoln, it’s his birthday April 5. Well on the hundreds and hundreds of years before Lincoln was born on April 5 1815, there are soldiers that are hundreds of miles away, who believed that they started to hear cannon fire, and they started to search for the battle that must be happening. But they would never find this battle because the rumbling they heard was not cannons. It was the beginnings of something much, much worse. According to contemporary accounts, flames shot from Mount tambores summit on April fifth, and the earth rumbled Alo unsettling rumble for several days. Oh, I know. Right. And then on April 10, five days later, it let loose. It’s terrible finale. three columns of fire shot from the mountain. A plume of smoke and gas reach 25 miles into that atmosphere. 25 miles. Yeah, for reference, the ozone layer sits somewhere between like 10 and 15 miles above their


So 25 miles is like still within the stratosphere, but is damn near what would be considered space. So okay, this sucker spews so much ash up into the space that it said that the sun was not seen for several days. Hmm.

Crazy, right?

Can you imagine?

Rachel 21:49
I mean, I would think it was the end of the world I would be Chicken littling all over the place.

Emily 21:55
100% and not to mention down on earth, fire generated winds uprooted trees. I don’t understand that but it happened. And then pyroclastic flows, which are extremely hot, dense, fast moving flows of solidified lava ash and hot gases. Pour down the slopes of Mount Tambora at more than 100 miles an hour. destroying everything in there pads.

Unknown Speaker 22:27
Okay. Okay.

Emily 22:29
It said that when it reached the sea, which was 25 miles away, it boiled and hissed and cause explosions of steam. Crazy.

Rachel 22:40
I mean, there’s a joke somewhere in there about very fresh lobster. I just, I’m still trying to picture I’m still trying to picture I’m so sorry. I this is how I cope with the horrible shape is I make ill timed jokes. But I mean, you know, it’s I can’t even you know, map is, you know, one of my my gaping lapses in knowledge, but one of many Yeah, it’s just I can’t even begin to fathom what that would be like for it to be this giant wave and then come crashing down 25 miles and boiling the fucking ocean. So yeah.

Emily 23:25
So seriously, when the lava met the water, it caused these gas bubbles to escape, which made the lava kind of frothy. And as it hardened, the froth became something called pumice like literally like pumice stones, like what you use on your feet. Yeah, but they’re not like a little pumice stone that you like. scrub your little feetsies with it’s like huge floating foot scrubbers floating on the water. And like trapping ships in the harbor like that.

Oh my god,

like, fucking massive. Yeah, in fact, so much rock and ash was thrown out of Tam Bora that the mountain collapsed in on itself. And it went from being a cone to being a crater. And it reduced its height from 14,000 feet to 9000 feet so it collapse by the mile basically. So Wow. Then throughout the region, Ash fucking rains down for weeks, like literally weeks it was raining ash, and houses hundreds of miles from the mountains are collapsing under the debris from all of this ash. Oh my god, you know, to top it off, it caused a moderate sized tsunami as well. So

there’s that. Sure.

So, Jesus Christ like all told, it’s the deadliest eruption in history. 10,000 people were like, instantly killed by the eruptions themselves, most of them on sumbawa Island. But that is not the end of The story because even after the eruption ended, and the pumice was broken up, and the ships were able to leave, and fires were put out in the smoke settled all that stuff, there were these profound, enduring effects on the region and the world. Because you see, such great quantities of sulfur gas, getting shot up into the air and mixing with the water vapor in the air, and then being hit by the winds that are in the stratosphere, like because remember, the ash and smoke hit that high, basically propels this haze of sulfuric acid, and ash and dust all around the Earth, like it’s circled the earth, Oh, my God. And they call it a global veil, like high above the rain clouds. There’s this veil of sulfuric acid and things that actually reflected the sunlight back into space. And that caused the entire planet to cool way down. Maybe

Rachel 26:02
it’s the opposite of what I would think would happen. Right? I would think that everything’s trapped in there with a layer that we have some sort of greenhouse effect, and it would get hotter. You know, I’m surprised.

Emily 26:15
Yeah, you would think in the months that followed the eruption, the Indonesian region was, of course the first to feel the effects. The changes in atmosphere caused crops to fail. And more than 80,000 people died from starvation. So the death toll is now at 90,000. From the volcano, and that’s just in Indonesia. But because it was 1815. The news of this eruption obviously didn’t travel fast. Like one article said it very well. It said news from around the world only traveled as fast as a ship crossing the ocean. So other countries probably didn’t know why things were amiss. But they certainly probably knew something was going on. Because for more than a year following this eruption, these strange things were happening all around the world. And in fact, they called the following year, the year without a summer because this crazy weather took place because of the ash that tambores spewed up into the atmosphere. Wow. Yeah. So let’s chat a bit about what happened 10,000 miles away in the northeastern United States, the weather in mid May of 1816 turned backwards as the local split and summer frost struck New England and as far south as Virginia. In June, up Blizzard pummeled upstate New York, back in July and August killer Frost’s in New England ravaged farms, and interesting quip. It’s even said that Thomas Jefferson, who had retired to Monticello after completing his second term as president had such a poor corn crop that year that he had to apply for $1,000 loan, because he couldn’t like all of his crops died, which is crazy.

Rachel 28:17
I think, see you live in a farm community? Well, you’re in a farm community right now you’re from a farming community, but I’m in a very urban area comparatively. And we do get snow into May and June in Colorado. In the mountains. It’s not consistent. Right. Um, but like, we don’t have a great, you know, growing rice situation, some kind of growing Oh, winco, Inc. No, but I mean, it’s, it’s a running joke. Like, you’re probably going to have snow for Mother’s Day. And then you can say it’s, it’s done. We usually do get it on and off through May. But it’s, it’s crazy to me, because, in my mind, me being you know, in the 21st century, and in our house that heats and cools without me really having to think about it. I don’t, I think oh, not a huge deal.

Emily 29:18
Yeah, I mean, if it snowed in June here, it could potentially like ruin my dad’s whole crop. And that’s his entire livelihood for the year. Like, they basically make out a massive loan at the beginning of the year to be able to pay for all the seed and stuff. And then whatever they sell the crops for, at the end of the season, pays back the loan, and then anything above and beyond that is what their income is. And so if they weren’t, I mean, they wouldn’t be able to pay back the loan, so then they’d be in crazy debt, and it would just it could devastate you.


Yeah. So it’s like, it’s really devastating to have blessed In June, basically, especially for a farming community, and then it’s like the butterfly effect, right? The ramifications keep spreading from there. So 1000s of people left New England because they were hoping they’d find a more hospitable climate west of the Ohio River, you know, and so, actually, partly because of this migration, like Indiana became a state and 1816. And Illinois gained statehood in 1818. Because people were like, Okay, what the hell we’re going to move? Yeah, okay. across the pond in Europe, unusual amount of rain fell in the summer of 1816. So it rained nonstop in Ireland for eight weeks, which caused the potato crop to fail. And then the area was overcome with famine. And then the widespread failure of corn and wheat crops and Europe in Great Britain led to what historian john D post has called, quote, the last great subsistence crisis in the Western world. Wow, the last time that crops failed that bad that it truly affected the western world’s like ability to feed their people. Like now. There’s so many you can have it imported or exported, you know, and there’s savings and canning. I don’t know, whatever. I don’t know what I’m talking about, obviously, anyways,

Rachel 31:20
there’s fucking sustenance everywhere. Awesome. It’s all over this place. Okay. You know that I like settlers of Qatar, and it’s one of my favorite board games. And I’m just thinking, it’s just so easy to make it rain. Crap. So you got your wheat, you got your or you got your sheep. It’s fucking everywhere. You just pick a card and it’s there, boom, done. Build.

Emily 31:41
You guys taught me how to play Settlers of Catan when I was at your house, and basically raised me over the coals, I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. It gets harder when you’re drinking. And yeah, that’s true. So unfortunately, after hunger comes disease. And so typhus broke out in Ireland in 1816, which killed 1000s. And then over the next couple of years, it’s spread throughout the British Isles, in China and Tibet, if we’re over on that side of the world, they had unseasonably cold weather, which killed trees, and rice and even water buffalo, which I thought was an interesting note. Didn’t know water buffalo were in China and Tibet, but okay. Sure, I guess Tibet.

Rachel 32:26
I mean, come on, then, as you didn’t know where the local water buffalo graze, I mean,

Emily 32:35
and so then floods ruin surviving crops there as well. So one researcher, Dr. Guillen, wood believes many other repercussions came about because of this planetary chill. For example, the color a pandemic of 1817 that begun in India and globally killed 10s of millions of people. Dr. Wood attributes the disease’s rise to a deadly combination of monsoonal changes and pounding rains, both things that followed the eruption. So, you know, can we say the eruption was the only cause of cholera? No. But do climatologists and scientists believe that they’re interconnected? Absolutely. You know, so, if we’re doing a calculation of what this eruption possibly had an effect on? We’re talking 90,000 deaths, for sure. But maybe 10s of millions, like if it contributed to that level of disease and famine and death around the world? Yeah, it’s absolutely crazy.

Rachel 33:44
It is. And I mean, my head is just kind of popping off when you’re talking about typhus in Ireland. And I’m like, okay, typhoid, Mary. And you know, the potato famine, obviously, very famous, but also, poor Ireland, will have to do a story there. And it’s just all of these things that are very well known in history to think that they are all the ripple effect

Emily 34:10
of this volcano, and a volcano I’d never heard of. And it happened, like I said, in 1815, back before, they really had any way to communicate, and it happened in these tiny islands in Indonesia, like the likelihood that that news made it anywhere is pretty small. So no one really knew what was causing any of this or what they were able to connect at all, you know, but it’s crazy to think about.

Rachel 34:36
Yeah, did you read anywhere that there was a smell? Because when I think about sulfur, I think about that smell that egg smell.

Emily 34:45
I did not there were no notes about that. But I have to imagine that it just like a rotten egg, which is so disgusting. Can you imagine pumice stones the size of a ship? just recap eggs Gross.

Rachel 35:01
Thanks for the nightmares. Now, I wasn’t thinking about it like that. I also really don’t like feet. So now I’m imagining these giant ass feet for which the puppet stones are used. And it’s just not. It’s not it’s really unpleasant. I mean, I’m horrified. So great job.

Emily 35:20
Yeah. Okay, so today mountainboard is still active, though its most recent eruption was in 1967. And obviously was not anywhere near it was probably just a colossal, you know, no big thing. level three. I actually think it’s level six, but I don’t know. I’d have to scroll back up my page. And that sounds like a lot of work. For a lot today, you can just leave it. Thank you. So the terrain up the sides of the mountain is essentially a Savanna. You know, it’s covered with tall grasses, maybe a few trees, boulders, the size of cars likely, like thrown out of the mountain on this crazy day. The crater inside of the mountain is 3600 feet deep and 3.7 miles across. And it’s also totally barren. They said there’s not a single blade of grass in that bowl. There are however, enormous piles of rubble at the base of the steep crater walls. So I mean, this sucker just like blew its top, literally everywhere. And now it’s gross. Sorry, my mind went there. My two I was like, Well, you know, lovely. Sex jokes, extra hugs. Um, but can you imagine? I mean, when I was at the beginning of the story, I was mentioning that it was this lush plays, they grew rice on the side of the mountain, like all this beautifulness and now it’s just barren. You know, so much trauma essentially happened to that part of the earth that it’s like, Yeah, fuck y’all. I’m God. Mother still live around the base, right? I don’t know. I hope not. I wouldn’t. Yeah, so Clive open heimer, who is a volcanologist at the University of Cambridge, and studied the Tambora catastrophe put the chance of a similar explosion in the next half century as relatively low, perhaps 10%. Which, that still seems higher than I’d like, way too high for me. 10% is a lot when you’re talking about like a cataclysmic fuckin huge ass super colossal, whatever. The other thing? Yeah, I’d prefer point 01 percent please. Clive, Clive. Sorry. Sorry, Claire, I love you. Okay. But I really think like it can kind of serve as a warning, you know, for all of us when you start to think and I mean, I’m not going to get up on climate change, soapbox. But like the consequences of pollution, and putting things into that atmosphere, it obviously has an effect on the earth, the entire earth when things get put up into the atmosphere that don’t belong there, you know. So I’m going to, I just gonna end with a little blurb from an article that I read by Robert Evans, who’s a journalist with Smithsonian magazine, who researched and then visited mount Tambora in 2002. He said, looking into that crater, and having familiarized myself with others research on the consequences of the eruption. I saw as it for the first time, how the planet and its life forms are linked. The material that Tambora ejected into the atmosphere, perturbed climate, destroyed, crops spurred disease, made, some people go hungry, and others migrate. Timber also opened my eyes to the idea that what human beings put into the atmosphere may have profound impacts. In fact, interestingly, scientists who study global climate trends use tan Bora as a benchmark, identifying the period of 1815 to 1816. And ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica, by their unusually high sulfur content, a signature of a great upheaval long ago and a world away. Wow, the and and

that’s horrifying. The way I interpret the last part of that because I was like, the whole first part is like this, like, beautifully written, and then it’s like, and scientists believe bla bla bla, and I’m like, wait, what does this mean? But so I mean, like, if they’re setting the ice cores in Greenland and Antarctica, which is very far away from Indonesia, and they’re seeing There’s an unusually high sulfur content in the ice core in the like layer that would be from 1815 1816. They’re able to see physically, you know, prove that there was this massive upheaval in the climate in 1815 1816. And they use that as a benchmark of like, this terrible timeframe of like when climate was drastically changed by an event. And so it’s kind of interesting to think that they would use that as the benchmark up against probably where we are now. Yeah, I wish I would have done that research. And found out like, if it matches now, or if it’s the opposite, like, I don’t know, it’s crazy.

Rachel 40:43
Yeah. And it’s interesting to think are we fucking up their environment now? So they’re gonna be able to study it somehow, like rings on a tree like look at this year? Yeah, john, fact up

Emily 40:54
your climate. It’s like, okay, in 1815, Mother Nature got pissed. And there was a huge volcano, and it almost ruined the world.

Rachel 41:03
And then in 2008, the supervolcano under Yellowstone erupted. And on April 5 202 years later, Rachel son was born, and then also destroyed things, but only in a small scale in my house, bear. Great job, great job, horrible, horrible, and history, and history. That’s fuckin history. I don’t know that we’ve really explained this on the pod. But we don’t know each other’s stories. However, we kind of do a horrible scale. So it’s like, Okay, how many people died in years? What were the impacts and then you’re going first. So if you notice, if you listen to Episode Four, and Emily went first, and we had been alternating until then, and then you listen to Episode Five and Emily went first, we kind of decide whose story is more horrible. And that person goes first. So we can leave you on, hopefully a little bit of a lighter note. So for the lighter now, we’re going to San Francisco back to California. I love it there. Emily, have you been to San Francisco?

Emily 42:14
I have not been to San Francisco. It’s on my list. It’s a my list is currently on hold. But I think it looks cool. Like it looks like a really sweet place to go. But I’ve never really had a reason ago. And I’ve always heard it’s really expensive.

Rachel 42:30
I don’t think I’ve ever been there, either. But my head tells me I have because I’ve seen every episode of Full House multiple times in the 90s.

Emily 42:40
I don’t know that I like watched it enough to care about it. I mean, I saw a few episodes. I know the general premise and like who the characters are and stuff, but

Rachel 42:49
yeah, yeah, and watching it as an adult is only nostalgic if you watch it as a kid. Otherwise, it’s just maybe a little too wholesome.

Emily 42:57
Now, that is the same as the movie Hocus Pocus, which I had never seen until Halloween last year when my friend Carson forced me to watch it. And he was like dying. He’s like, I fucking love this movie. It’s so good. And he was like talking about how good it was. And I sat there like in horror of how terrible that movie is. It’s so bad.

Rachel 43:17
I also have never seen Hocus Pocus. Don’t just wasn’t one on my list.

Emily 43:23
If you didn’t watch it as an as a youth. Like you’ll think it’s ridiculous and corny and poorly acted and absurd.

Rachel 43:30
Yeah. I made Robert when we were dating, watch little rascals. And I think maybe it’s seen it once as a child, but he wasn’t into it. Whereas It was one of my favorite movies. And he was like, This is Tom.

Okay, you’re like, you’re dumb. You don’t even know.

He’s fucking precious. He’s a national treasure. Benny Hill. I am going to start my story like a bad wedding toast. Hmm. dictionary.com defines Stockholm Syndrome as a mental and emotional response in which a captive displays seeming loyalty to even affection for the captor. The captive may come to see law enforcement or rescuers as the enemy because they endanger the cap tour. Today, I’m going to be covering the kidnapping and subsequent misadventures of Patty Hearst.

Emily 44:29
Oh, shit girl. I am fascinated by Stockholm Syndrome.

Rachel 44:34
Yeah. And we’re going to there’s going to be a little debate because we’re going to, I’m going to ask you at the end. Do you think she had Stockholm Syndrome or not? So be be thinking listeners, you too. My main source for this story was the book by jeffrey toobin, American heiress the wild saga of the kidnapping crimes and trial of Patty Hearst.

Emily 44:57
I love how you always use books, and I’m like, I google, the last

Rachel 45:01
This book was so incredibly thorough that I didn’t even there’s so much that I had to cut out of my story. If you’re interested in this, read that book. It’s amazing. Okay, we are going back to February 1974. Patricia Hearst is the granddaughter of William Randolph Hearst. Big fucking deal if you like newspapers and shit. She’s the middle child of her parents, Randy and Catherine. And she is though rebel. She’s somebody that I think we would think is really cool while we were following the rules. Like I wish I could be her but I wouldn’t ever be her. Yeah, she’s smoking. Oh, my God, don’t look at it. She gets sent to and kicked out of multiple Catholic schools. And she ends up at a finishing school incredibly outdated, even in the 70s. This is outdated. But don’t worry, because she dates her teacher. Petra. Well, and Steven like, Oh, she was 17 when they started dating, which is it’s really gross to me, but and they go into this or jeffrey toobin goes into this in the book, but the Hersman often married and dated teenagers. So her family couldn’t really say anything a little thought. But after she graduated high school, Patti and Steve move in together while they’re attending UC Berkeley, and they live in a UC Berkeley apartment, on campus or near campus. I’m not really sure. I don’t know if you can relate to this, Emily, but you know, when you are making choices, because you know, they’re going to piss your parents off. And then eventually, you realize that you need to live with those choices. And you’re like a mistake. I actually.

Emily 46:53
And don’t roll your eyes at this, but I can’t really relate to that. Like I was such a square, maybe a little bit like my senior year of high school where it was like, I’m gonna stay up late and like drive my car fast, but I really, nerd

Rachel 47:10
Yeah. Yeah, mania, they’re definitely not with people I’ve dated. I rebel in really tiny ways. Like, my mom will tell me to do something. And I’m like, I don’t think so. But I do it. That’s what was happening for Patty. Steve sacked. She would later say that she was mildly suicidal in their relationship. Essentially. She had been to finishing school she like decorates their, their little apartment with all of these like rich lady hand me downs. So it’s very, it looks like grandma’s place. doilies, floral couches, I’m assuming. And she’s trying to cook like tuna sandwiches, and they’re both going to school. But she like cooks and cleans. She’s like 18 at this point. And Steve doesn’t do a damn thing. So Steve, you suck. They kind of slipped into an engagement so that they could be living in sin because remember, her mom is real Catholic. He made it when you slip into an engagement. Oh my gosh, yeah, it was he gave her a gift. And instead of buying her a ring, he wrote the word ring on a piece of paper and give it to her. I hate. He sucks. But, you know, Catherine, the mom. She was stoked. So she announced it in a newspaper. And Patti is trapped. Oh. So back to February 1974. It’s February 4, around 9pm. Patti and Steve are chilling on the couch in their apartment. I’m imagining a Netflix and chill situation before Netflix. Maybe they were doing homework. They’re comfy. They’re they’re serious students. They’re not really partiers Patty’s wearing a bathrobe. They aren’t expecting any company. And there’s a knock at the door. So it’s a woman saying that she accidentally hit Steve’s car and that she needs to use the phone. And then Patty hears a loud crash. A group of people bust through the door, tie up Patti beat up Steve and start yelling where’s the safe? Where’s the safe? So Steve is initially knocked out for a minute. And then he regains consciousness and he sees Patti is tied up. You and I have talked about trauma and how people have different reactions to dramatic situations. So I don’t want to minimize that. And I get why Steve would feel panicked. So they’re shouting about a state safe and Steve is repeatedly saying take whatever you want, take whatever you want, which is a pretty normal thing to say. I would imagine if you think you’re getting robbed. Yeah. However, if you combine that with the fact that Steve ran out of the apartment, While Patty was still tied up, you’ve got a recipe for resentment. He is the worst. Oh my god. I want to add again, trauma response, but seems not great. Not because of that, but the combination of things. The grip doesn’t take any money, but they do take Patty and they throw her in the trunk of the car, as you do nice as one does. Let’s talk about the group that took her. The Symbionese Liberation Army. We’re gonna call them the SLA in my head, like The Breakfast Club, but less fun. Because they’re anarchists and criminals. There’s a Vietnam vet, a black dude, a lesbian, a street person, a poet and actress and they all learn how to work together.

Emily 50:50
Person Oh my god. It was written in the book it I love it. Unlike the ragtag crew of rascals. Yeah.

Rachel 51:00
Yeah. Like the little rascals all grown up. If they did drugs, in fact each other, I’m more into crime. Whoo. They, they wanted to fight for justice. But they weren’t really sure what that looked like. I don’t think there was any plan, it was just a bunch of mismatched leftist ideologies. And this is the part the throwback to your story. When we talk about our worst nightmares. It’s this unorganized group project where nobody knows what the fuck they’re doing. And were like, fine, fine, I’ll just take over.

Emily 51:32
How many projects do you think you’ve just fully done yourself? Because I don’t think every single one I’ve ever met,

Rachel 51:37
I would say at least double digits. I can’t. Um, I would say this podcast is the first group project type thing that I’ve been like, okay, I’ll pull my way and she’ll pull her weight and everything will be fine.

Emily 51:50
And it’s been it’s really been fantastic. Like, I think I don’t do this after like the first one. I was like, this is the first time I’ve ever partnered with somebody and actually liked it.

Rachel 52:01
Yes, same thing. So the only real consistency in this group was the phrase that they use to end most of their communications, quote, Death to the fascist insect that preys upon the life of the people. Okay. They’re pretty intense. The SLA had recently been in the news, so Patti was familiar with them. The leader of the group, Donald defries, had escaped from Vacaville prison, and then three months before kidnapping Patty, the SLA killed Marcus Foster, who was a superintendent for an Oakland School District. I didn’t get really crazy into this story. In my research, it kind of felt like defries thought he and Marcus foster had like a yin and yang situation where they were like, somehow linked, and one of them had to die. But this guy was really loved superintendent in Oakland, and he did a lot of really good things, and people were fucking pissed.

Emily 53:07
Sounds like he thought like he was his Horcrux. Like, if

Rachel 53:14
it was exactly like that. Well, you know, from the skimming I did about that situation. It was exactly that. And so Patty, she is in this trunk, and eventually in this backseat, she knows she’s with the SLA. And she knows they’ve killed people before. So just keep that in mind. She’s scared. Yeah. When here’s where we get to play a fun game that I’m going to call that’s not my jurisdiction. When they killed Marcus Foster, it was up to the Oakland Police Department to find the SLA and hold them accountable. But kidnapping is FBI territory. And we know from lots of other cases that in the 70s, people weren’t sharing information. And it’s probably one of the reasons that this whole ordeal goes on. So

Emily 54:03
seriously, how many murders, kidnappings, rapes, serial killers, probably even burglaries like happened. That could have been stopped, if they would have just fucking communicated with each other.

Rachel 54:18
Yeah, and I think that’s really gotten better, but not until probably our lifetimes Yeah, for real. So back to the SLA. They decided they wanted to kidnap someone noteworthy to get more attention. They’re very a lot of them are actors. And so it’s described as this like, theatrical guerrilla situation. I can’t remember the exact words but they they want a lot of attention like a flash mob, like a flash mob if a flash mob kidnapped and killed people. They they just want to create chaos and get that money. And remember, I said that Patti’s mom wanted to make an honest woman out of her so she posted that full page engagement and announcement. The SLA is so unorganized, they didn’t know who they wanted to kidnap until they saw this engagement announcement. And then one of the SLA members, Bill Harris knew that you could get a directory of student addresses at Berkeley. So they knew exactly where to find Patty. Her address was just listed there. They didn’t have to work that hard, smart. So like I said, after a little bit, they move Patty from the trunk into the backseat. Everybody is wearing ski masks, which makes her feel hopeful because she thinks Okay, they plan to release me, they’re all wearing ski masks. So defries tells her that su two of the SLS comrades are in San Quentin. And she will be treated exactly like they are. So like, if they’re released, she’s released if they’re treated well, she’s treated well. But they locked her in a closet for the first few days. And then they’re just I think, trying to figure out what they want to do. They’re very unorganized. So it’s a few days, and then they put out a ransom tape. So spoiler alert, they aren’t great at it. The tape doesn’t demand a ransom, or freedom for a little and Ramiro, who are the guys in San Quentin. And it doesn’t give any conditions about releasing Patty. It basically says, Don’t come at me, or then she’s going to be unsafe, but otherwise, her safety is guaranteed. Like we’re not going to hurt her. But like, don’t try and find me. I don’t have any requests right now. We’ll get back to you. What do you want? I’m on track. So what do we want? Meanwhile, in the hostage house, defries is still trying to think about, okay, we only want I there’s like, I can’t remember like seven or eight of them there. He only wants Patti to see if you have the members even though they’re all still wearing ski masks that’s important. So she can’t identify all of them. So Angela Atwood, and actress and chatterbox, Nancy Lange, who basically babysits Angeles so she doesn’t get too close to Patti. And while he Wolf, who had a similar upper class background to Patty’s Wolf, was probably at what a mall for probably who Patty was closest to. He read her a shit ton of Marxist literature and told her about the ill treatment of the prisoners at Taco Bell. He’s like that guy that we all knew in college who’s like, Can I please just read you some kirkegaard and you’re like, oh my god. Yes, I love it. Um, Angela Atwood tried to be Patty’s BFF. Patty wasn’t having it at first. But Angela was mostly talking about how much she loved Joe Ramiro, one of those dudes in prison. She’s basically like, the revolution. As long as I get my boyfriend back. She’s not super committed. She’s got her mind on one thing, and one thing only. Mm hmm. So Patty starts to build these relationships with Angela and Willie. And this ill free breakfast club is still trying to figure out what they’re going to do with her days go by. And there is no communication between the SLA and Patty’s family. So defries is the leader of the group. But bill Harris seems to have a lot of ideas that he like slips in. So I picture him as like the under the radar kind of leader. So he decides, hey, instead of demanding a ransom so that we can just get a lot of money. What if the Hearst family since they’re super rich starts donating money to feed the poor? Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, just remember how unorganized they are. It seems like a good idea at the time. So defries announces the plan via another recording. And he says the Hearst family needs to provide $70 million worth of food for everyone on welfare, which doesn’t sound like the worst idea in the world, like we said, but this group of misfits does not do their homework, because it would have cost the Hearst family $400 million in 1975 money over 2 billion today.

Emily 59:18
You mean to be able to actually feed everyone on welfare? It would have been $2 billion, not the 7 million that they had. Correct. Okay, so they love

Rachel 59:31
you. Yeah. Well, they basically said like, we want everyone to have enough food for, you know, indefinitely. I don’t do the math, but it was a lot of fucking money. And Patti makes her first recorded appearance here, too. It came out on February 11, which was a full week after she was kidnapped. So defries gives her a script and it has some suggestions but she can use her own words. The first four words become famous mess because she’s very monotone. But apparently that’s just her personality. So she says, Mom, Dad, I’m okay. She also linked her captivity to the two men in San Quentin. So she’s kind of like, Hey,


Isn’t this what you want? Can we talk about this? And she’s just kind of trying to get the ball rolling and get out of there at this point. She’s the only one who has any sensibility basically. Ah, yes, so far. So, the hearse family don’t have a ton of freed up money. They don’t have as much as people think, Randy and Katherine. And they’re trying to figure it out. Catherine hires a bunch of psychics to try and find her. Randy, the dad ends up sending a tape back to her kind of saying, Patti, like, We love you. We don’t know how to do this, please come home. But then the SLA and Patti put out another tape that’s like, I’m fine. And she seems kind of impatient. So you can kind of see through the tapes, how she’s getting more integrated in the group. And Dad, you’re embarrassing me in front of my new friends. Ah, just pay for the poor people to eat. And so he tries. Randy basically creates a charity. It’s called people in need. Like I said, He’s not super wealthy. So he takes out a loan. And he does give them 2 million in this charity. It it’s like a basically a food truck, but more like a grocery delivery where they just kind of show up places and hand out food. Randy, to me, it seems like he’s really trying to get his daughter back. But there’s such a lack of communication. And the FBI isn’t really doing much right now. They’re kind of dragging on the case. So it’s just kind of a bunch of tapes back and forth. There’s a lot of them. Like I said, read the book, if you want to be thorough, but to summarize, defries basically says Fuck you and your 2 million he doesn’t think Randy’s doing enough. Meanwhile, Governor Reagan’s over there, he’s the governor of California. And he’s like, Huh, the Hearst family are enabling poor people. So what are they even doing? Just get that kid back? Because you know how Reagan just loves to help people who are millionaires. There, there’s a lot of pressure on the Hurst on Randy Harris, because he’s like, obviously want my kid back. But also I’m getting this pressure from the governor. And what do I do? Also, in fairness, people in need the charity is a little bit of a shit show. So on February 22 1974, they announced that they are going to be giving food out in Oakland, and it is a hot mess. People are literally fighting in the street, smacking each other with frozen meat. Oh my god. This is a movie. It’s a shit show. They climb on the track and they take the food out and they’re beating it. And this moral of the story, never piss off a Raiders fan. That’s it. Regardless, Jeffrey says I want 4 million brandy says I don’t have it. It’s awkward for everybody. So Randy finally says, Hey, I will give the 2 million when Patti is released and then 2 million more in January of 75 A month after the kidnapping. Wow, all of these non negotiations are going on. The SLA has basically been telling Patti don’t trust the FBI. And they’re kind of telling her they’re not necessarily indoctrinating her because I don’t know that they’re smart enough. But they’re all still wearing ski masks. They’re all with her all the time, for a month, at least around her when she can see them. And then she starts saying she doesn’t trust the FBI or her parents. And the group is really like freewheeling and non monogamous. And they think that sex is a basic human need. And this is where it gets a little bit. I mean, trigger warning, sexual assault, because there are differing reports from Patty and the surviving members of the SLA on how she and Willy wolf start hooking up. Because she says, once all of this is over that this wasn’t consensual. And the other members of the group say that she wanted to, I’m gonna go ahead and say but if you’re kidnapped, locked in a closet and unable to see the face of anyone, you’re around for a solid month, even if you say yes, it’s not consensual. Yeah, agreed.

But she can really become a couple. And she started saying that she wants to join the SLA. They have a meeting, they vote her and she starts going by Tanya and they have are posed with the sawed off shotgun and that and a wig and That iconic picture which we will post on our Instagram. And by the end of March, they tell her, they have, she has the choice to leave or stay. Although she later says she didn’t think it was a real choice, like when you’re a parent and you tell your kid you can clean up now or in one minute. But regardless, she stays. And of course, since this is the worst group project, and nobody’s planning anything, they run out of money, of course. So now we’re on April 15. So I’ll boat two months, almost two and a half months after she is taken. The SLA robs a bank. Patty is front and center for the cameras. Of course, because they’re so unorganized. It does not go off perfectly. A couple people start panic shooting, but luckily nobody dies. They get $10,660 and they stole the gun. They’re still putting out communication tapes in April, in which Patty is going by Tanya, she basically is tough. Talking to your mom and dad. Like I’m not brainwashed. And she also sends out a big old fuck you to Steve. Yeah, you just ran out of the apartment and abandoned me and now my name is Tanya. Yeah, she says that over and over again. Like she really separates on the tip. Whatever you want, take whatever you wanted. And they took her. I mean, at this point to Steve is like still kind of hanging out at the Hearst house and like, Oh, yeah, I guess I miss her. And he’s not great. So after this, the group knows that because they robbed a bank, they need to maybe move so they moved from San Francisco to LA. They are living in a shithole they barely leave for about a month. And finally, in May, she goes on some errands with Bill and Emily Harris. Bill, although he was maybe the secret brains for a while is real stupid. And he shoplifts and gets tackled by the store owner. And then they realize bill has a gun. Patty, while bill and Emily are in the store at Patty is chilling in a van the whole time. She doesn’t leave. And she instinctively when she sees that bill is tackled starts shooting Ah, so that Phil and Emily can get away. And so they they do get away and they drive and basically they have to be in their car and they steal a bunch of cars, and it’s the 70s. So none of these fucking cars work. Like they’ll go a couple blocks and then stop. And then anyway, they see a car for sale. And they go and they knock on the door and they’re like, Hey, can we take this car for a test drive? And it’s an 18 year old kid, his name’s Tom Matthews. And he’s like, sure, but I have to come with you big mistake. They take this team hostage to like the drive in movies. Because that’s apparently their backup plan. They know they can’t go back to the house because they’ve been, you know, all over the news. And so they go to the movies thinking that they’ll meet up with the rest of the SLA but they don’t come. They they kindly drop off little Tommy back at his house so he can go to his baseball game. And then they go to Anaheim. And I don’t know if you know what’s an Anaheim. But you know how you do when you you steal cars and you shoot guns and you kidnap a teenager? Then you’re going to

Disneyland. Oh, that’s right. Oh my god. They’re like really going to Disneyland. Best day ever. Yeah. So they’re in Anaheim. They don’t go to Disney. But I guess Emily knew somebody who worked at Disney or close to Disney doesn’t really matter. But they’re in there. And they’re watching TV, as you do. China lelo and the rest of the SLA is back in Albay. They leave the shithole house and essentially, they go to this like area and they try to find this person. They pay this woman $100 to hide out at our house and she has kids there. The kids do leave before any of this goes down. But regardless, the police find them there’s this crazy shoot out. Couple of them are shot, the house fuckin collapses. three dogs die which is the worst. No police officers are killed because they don’t have great aim. But Angela Atwood and Willie Wolf, two of the ones that we had talked about before. They like climb under the house thinking that they’ll avoid it but they die of burns and smoking inhalation. They die in the fire. Donald defries also has a gunshot wound but because of all of the debris and everything, they don’t know if it was suicide or police inflicted. But Patty is in this hotel in Anaheim and she’s seeing all of this on the TV and She’s pissed. She wants revenge for their deaths. Oh, yeah, that’s her family now, right? At least at this point, she’s still going by Tanya. And so instead of getting revenge, she goes on the run with the Harris’s and another member of the SLA, Kathy, Sylvia. This part gets a little bit fuzzy for me, it’s so haphazard. But she at some point she tells. She’s like talking to a journalist, and she sees the journalist mom and tells her that she planned the entire kidnapping so that she didn’t have to marry Steve. But they’re fatty for Steve. There is no way this could have happened. The timeline doesn’t match up. And of course, they run out of money again, and in April of 1975. They Rob another bank, and Emily Harris kills a woman mirana Lee Opsahl. After this, the group splits. Police are chasing villain Emily for the murder. And when they find them, Patty’s not with them. They they find her almost by accident. At this point. Are the police searching for Patty still as a kidnapping victim? Or is she now considered part of the SLA by the police? She has wanted for bank robbery at this point. Okay. Also, yes, I met three of the Backstreet Boys in Disneyland. Which three? Kevin? Howie, Howie and no, AJ. Yeah. And Brian, the hot one. Oh, Brian’s a cute one. He was a dick. Sorry. Really? Well, I really liked that. But now, I think it’s not AJ. Kevin was the one who looked way too old for the rest of the Backstreet Boys. But that is an adult. I’m like, Oh, no, he’s really good looking now that I’m an adult, but as a kid, I thought he looked like a weird uncle. Like, why are you so old? He’s like, why are you wearing those chains? chinko chicka jeans? Sorry. So almost by accident, they find Patty and apartment on September 18. In 1975. And in case you haven’t been keeping along, keeping score, she was kidnapped in February of 1974. And this is September 1975. She has avoided the police for a year and a half. Okay. Yeah.

Emily 1:12:45
It’s like, if you’re really it’s hard to believe it’s even Stockholm Syndrome at this point. It’s like you just I don’t know. But then again, I don’t know. Sorry, continue. And

Rachel 1:13:01
that’s essentially what they say at the trial. Because like you like you asked, she was charged with bank robbery and some other crimes. And her trial is a hot mess, just like the entire rest of the situation. So she ends up talking with a psychiatrist while she’s being held in prison. And the psychiatrist is pretty sure that she does have Stockholm Syndrome and says basically, that the her behaviors would be aligned to it if she was brainwashed. Also, I think it’s interesting that when she’s arrested, her IQ is at 112. And it had previously been 130. Oh, yeah. Well, and remember, she’s been in a high stress situation for a long time. She’s lost a ton of weight, she’s under 100 pounds. She has basically been surviving on like cigarettes and whatever they could get their hands on. So the judge seems to kind of have it out for her. And he doesn’t let any of her notes from her psychiatrist be admissible. There are some slut shaming as well about Willie wolfen. I think some other men that she had been with before, because you know, it’s the 70s and we all know ladies are allowed to enjoy sex. She again is going with the idea that she’s brainwashed. And guess who her lawyer is? It’s our old buddy f lee Bailey.

Emily 1:14:29
I knew I was trying. I knew it was him. But I I couldn’t remember his name. Even though that was his story last week. So winners, doesn’t he?

Rachel 1:14:40
I mean, not in this case. He’s not doing great by our record. He goes with the brainwashing defense. And he even believes Patty so much that he has her testify. It’s just not go well. He’s like, Oh, she’s the Boston Cold Case solved. She has this already famous monotone voice and she comes off sounding kind of drugged. People don’t like her. She’s not likable, and she’s found guilty and sentenced to seven years in prison. She served almost two, but President Carter commuted her sentence and then President Clinton ended up pardoning her completely in 2001. She after this, well, after her couple years in prison, she goes back to a relatively normal life if you’re a privileged white lady because she gets bodyguards and all the things and she ends up getting married to her bodyguard. Alright, I thought you’re gonna say Steve asked me like, are you kidding me. And after all of this, she marries Steve, just like on full house. He’s a podiatrist now on the new show, on a reboot, he’s, he’s not as bad but he’s a little dumb. Anywho. So, in American heiress by jeffrey toobin, he says about, and this is a quote about Patty’s time after the shoot out in LA, so when she’s on the run, he says, if you look at her actions over the following year, you see the actions of a revolutionary, not a victim. But Patty, still to this day, says that she was brainwashed. And that is the crazy story of the kidnapping and misadventures of Patty Hearst. So do you think

Emily 1:16:35
she had sack bumps from? Okay? Let me play out both sides of the story here. So

if she did have Stockholm Syndrome, that would mean that she was so brainwashed by these people that she thought that their their perspective on things was correct. And they were the ones who are going to protect her and everyone else in the world is going to hurt her. And so she maybe even though she didn’t like it, or want to be part of it, she knew they were her only choice.


if she just after spending two months with them was like, hey, these people are pretty cool. And that Willie got Wolfie guy, or whatever his name is. Willie Wolf, believable. Willie wolf is hot, and from the neck down, because remember, she couldn’t see his face. And he’s just like, you know, what, actually, as the rebel that I am, I’m kind of into all of these little ideas, and my parents sock and Steve socks, and so I’m just gonna go with it. And then it’s a really nice, back like story to be like, but I don’t need to be in trouble because I was brainwashed, you know, but how can you prove that someone was or wasn’t brainwashed? I mean, I guess the psychiatrist said he believed it. But I think I want to say, I don’t think she was I think she didn’t have Stockholm Syndrome. I think she just didn’t want to be in her life anymore. Yeah. And

Rachel 1:18:08
I think it’s a little bit of both. I think just like you said, she was bored. She had rebelled against her parents and then realized she had to live with those decisions. excitement and fear are really similar physiologically. So maybe she really was scared. But then in her brain, she kind of perceived it as excitement. So I think she definitely had some PTSD. As far as complete immersion, Stockholm Syndrome, I don’t know, I think it was probably a little bit of both

Emily 1:18:44
well, and if you live with that level of anxiety and fear for such a long amount of time, it becomes normalized, I’m sure. And so then, yes, it’s easier to interpret it as fun or excitement when it doesn’t feel so much like fear anymore, because you’re used to it.

Rachel 1:19:02
Yeah. And if you think about it, like, so the jury missed out on a lot of the information about her psychological exams afterwards. And I’m trying to think about it in terms of being a trauma, even once you’re out of the stressful situation, because, you know, she, she’s in the van, she could leave. She’s still immersed in it. I mean, think about people who come back from war, and then they have these flashbacks, like they are still in it. Our bodies and our brains don’t always take in the evidence that’s right in front of us. Yeah, they’re still living in the trauma. And so I definitely think there could have been some of that. Do I think it was

all of that?

Emily 1:19:46
I don’t know. I think she was willing to take part in more than maybe she needed to. But yeah, well, I really see I’m like changing my mind now because part of me is like, I don’t want a victim blame and like they obviously kidnapped her I don’t think by any means that she like, orchestrated at all to get away from Steve. No way. So it’s just a question of did she, at some point, realize they weren’t going to hurt her and then was like, but this seems better than my old life.

Rachel 1:20:23
Not to play both sides against the middle, but I think maybe

Emily 1:20:29
both sides against the middle. That was very distinguished kind of like as the crow flies. But yeah, that’s it. That’s my whole story. Gosh, I Stockholm Syndrome is fascinating to me. I love the story of the original. And that one was great. It’s crazy to me that this one was a year and a half plus like, Huh, that seems shocking to me. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe it’s so much more believable that it went on for so long. Like, I don’t know enough about have a thought. But, but wow, that? Yes. Oh, good job. I love that. Yeah. Thank you. I need to find the audio and listen to Mom, dad. I’m okay. Yes. Me too. I didn’t listen to it. But the author was just like she was really monotone. Oh, my gosh, it sounds like have you ever seen that documentary on Elizabeth Holmes as I her name, the woman who? She had that pharmacy biopharma company, she was like this. And she was like, supposedly going to be able to test you for diseases with like this tiny droplet of blood and blah, blah. And people gave her billions of dollars. And then it was like, the stuff she was saying that she had. She didn’t have the science for it like, and she was crazy. But if you ever if you haven’t watched that documentary, one, it’s fascinating. And two, she has the weirdest voice of all time really, really low like this? Nope. And the first time on the documentary is like the very first thing as her answer, like answering some questions, just like, I’m Elizabeth Holmes, or whatever. And I was like, guess you convince people to give you money? Yeah. Right. And she definitely had this like, I love Steve Jobs, five and like, wore only black turtlenecks and black pants. It was so it’s a weird one for sure. But yeah, sides of the spine. Well, that was so good. And, you know, volcanoes and Stockholm Syndrome? What? Nothing goes better together? Yeah.

Rachel 1:22:44
While we do try to mix it up a little bit so that there’s something for everyone. Something for the kids. You know, that’s not for the kids. Don’t let your kids Listen to this. How are you doing? That would probably be a mess. Other than the children? Thank you, everyone, for listening. Yeah, thank you. We are sincerely so grateful for all of our listeners. And we’d love seeing our numbers growing so quickly. If you like us, be sure to subscribe rate and review. reviews and downloads are so huge for us. As we’re still new. This is only episode five and a five star review on Apple is so easy. Just click the last star You got this. We believe in you. I believe in you that you can do a five star review. But also a review review is incredible. So do yeah. And tell us where you want us to go when you review us because we take those seriously. We got our first dm suggestion. And I Deb state. I already have a Christmas case for next week. But Jen, if you’re listening, your story is coming the week after that.

Emily 1:23:50
Yay. And I know that in one of the reviews, we saw

Rachel 1:23:55
fears and beers podcast. Yeah, they want us to go to Kansas. Yeah, and the only thing we can think about is BTK. So we’ll have to figure that out. Because BTK is going to have to be both of us doing that story together. Unless there’s something else historically cool. That happened in Kansas. Yeah, heavy hitters will probably do together. We’ll look into it.

Emily 1:24:15
But yeah, so thank you to everyone who has been following and submitting these awesome ideas. You can also submit awesome ideas to us and also we just like to get to know you more and for you to get to know us on social media. So please follow us on Instagram at horrible history pod or twitter at the horrible pod.

Rachel 1:24:34
And before we go, just a little teaser for next week’s terrible today they drop on Tuesdays. We will be doing a little break of format to share a big story we are both obsessed with that happened post 1987 it is actually the story that got both Emily and myself hooked on true crime.

Emily 1:24:56
I’m so excited to do a story together. not gonna want to miss it guys. So until next time, thank you again for listening. Hopefully you’re horrified.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Intro Music: “Creeper” – Oliver Lyu

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