Home » Episodes » Episode 2 – Grand Canyon & San Diego (A Little Light Disfiguration)

This week, join Emily and Rachel as they travel to the Grand Canyon and San Diego, CA. Emily covers the tragic-as-hell mid-air collision of TWA 2 and United 718 above the Grand Canyon and Rachel gives us all the creeps as she talks about the hanging of Yankee Jim in Old Town San Diego and the Whaley House hauntings that followed. Hopefully you’re horrified!


Rachel 0:14
Welcome to horrible history. I’m Rachel Everett Lozon.

Emily 0:18
And I’m Emily Barlean.

Rachel 0:20
And this is our Podcast, where each week we venture into two new cities and do deep dives into horrible, tragic pieces of history that you’ve definitely won’t read about in the travel brochures.

Emily 0:31
This week, we’re headed to San Diego, and the Grand Canyon, which I realize it’s not the city, but it’s my podcast, so don’t come at me.

Rachel 0:42
It still feels so crazy to say, this is my podcast. I know. We have a fucking podcast. It’s amazing.

Emily 0:50
I know. It’s like we have one whole episode out. But I’m still feeling like a real podcaster as I sit here underneath the blanket because I recorded the first episode from my mother’s closet, because I didn’t have a good space that was like, what am I trying to say insulated or you know, not very sound…

Rachel 1:11
Like claustrophobic you need a claustrophobic recording space

Emily 1:15
to do so that there’s like a buffer for all the sounds so that you don’t have that teeny hollow sound. And then I couldn’t use it this week. So I am sitting underneath a blanket. And hopefully the sound quality is good.

Rachel 1:28
I really just want to put some twinkle lights surrounding you and go old school childhood four days, it looks amazing.

Emily 1:37
That’s how it feels. And I’m in my childhood bedroom. So it feels like that even more.

Rachel 1:44
It’s perfect. And Happy Thanksgiving.

Emily 1:47
Good point. This is dropping on Thursday. And that means it’s Thanksgiving for everyone who’s listening. So, yeah, Happy Thanksgiving.

Rachel 1:56
Thank you.

Emily 1:57
I feel like this is going to be such a weird, depressing holiday for a lot of people. You know. So whether or not folks are just needing something to lift their spirits or maybe get away from their family. Come listen to our podcasts about horrible things.

Rachel 2:17
Like if you’re stuffing a turkey and you’re thinking about disgusting innards, or whatever comes with that Turkey. And you need a couple of friends being like, you know what, there’s something in the world more horrible than this. Although I do really love stuffing.

Emily 2:31
Oh, let’s see, I am not a stuffing person. cornbread stuffing has grown on me because it’s not. I have a texture thing. If it’s too mushy. I really don’t like it though. As a double standard. I love mashed potatoes. It’s like things that are supposed to be mushy. I like but in my head I classify bread as not supposed to be mushy. And so stuffing is weird to me.

Rachel 2:57
Not even like a solid bread pudding. See, I like bread pudding. Okay, really, I just might not like myth busted. I know. I know. I also hate stuffing a turkey. I I it’s so gross.

Emily 3:14
A turkey from my work last year. So at the end of the year, they give us a choice to have a turkey or a cheesecake. And I chose a turkey because I shouldn’t eat so much cheesecake and so I’m going to get this Turkey and I’m going to break it down. So I have meat in my freezer. It was so fucking disgusting. I hate I hated it. Kruk like crunching the bones to break the legs off and stuff made me want to hurl, which is weird. I don’t usually get queasy about things but it was slimy. And there’s skin everywhere. And then you have to crunch their bones. And I did not care for it

Rachel 4:00
makes me hungry. Just thinking about

Emily 4:03
opposite effect for you.

Rachel 4:04
This is why I’m married. I think a lot of the part of it is just that I don’t want to do that. But I still want to eat turkey. So that’s like the one thing my husband for sure cooks every year. So we have a smoker. Like I know I live in Colorado and when I say we like to smoke on Sundays, I think people get the wrong idea. We have a smoker of meat for barbecue. And we specifically bought one that it’s big enough to fit in entire Turkey. And so every year, my husband wakes up at like two in the morning. He bundles up because it’s cold on Thanksgiving and he smokes this Turkey for our family. I do everything else. But it’s I look forward to it every year. And I don’t have to touch the thing. It’s great because you can’t really put stuffing in a smoker or maybe you can don’t at me, I don’t know, but we don’t. So I just make the stuffing separately on the stovetop.

Emily 4:57
So I guess that’s what husband are four I’ve been trying to figure out

Rachel 5:03
my husband Actually, he gets husbanding points. And I’m going to throw this out there because he will never listen to this. So he doesn’t have to know how much I appreciate. Today, I was just feeling kind of off. And I just didn’t feel like doing anything. You know, those days when you’re like, all I want to do is lay in bed and watch House Hunters and just not do anything every day. And I have toddlers, so I just wasn’t really feeling it. And my husband was like, Hey, I texted your mom. I’m going to take the kids over there for a little bit. Why don’t you just take a nap? Chill out. I’ll see you in a few hours. I’ll pick up dinner on the way home. That’s incredible. And he did. And it was amazing. I took a nap. I watched House Hunters. And then I did the most relaxing thing I could think of I stole my kids bubble bath out of their bathroom, and I put it in my bathtub. And then I listened to a podcast about the Black Dahlia. Because that is relaxing to me. It’s amazing. And then he brought home fish tacos. It was the best

Emily 6:07
Brilliant. I give so much credit to moms. Because I know what you’re talking about those days where it’s just hard to do things. You’re just I just want to sit here. I don’t want to talk to anyone. I want to binge Dexter. That’s what I’m bingeing right now. And when your mom You can’t just be like Peace out. Not Luckily, you have a great husband who will help with that. So good. Good job, Robert.

Rachel 6:35
He he earned some points today and I will never play this for him. I did obviously I told him Thank you, and that I appreciated it. And so I think he’s he’s trying to get husband points. He knows I’m stressed around the holidays. A lot of people’s work dies down therapists work not so much. Because Hey, if you’re stressed about your family, go to therapy. That’s what you do.

Emily 6:59
I’ve always heard the holidays are when the hospitals always increase to people trying to deep fry a turkey and it blows up on them or whatever. So I think that yars seals though, on top of all the COVID craziness just Oh, it’s insane. I forgot about those deep frying turkey video. Rockets the turkey up into the air. So funny.

Rachel 7:25
I just want to see somebody like maybe get their eyebrows burnt off. I don’t want to see anybody get seriously injured. Just a little light. disfiguration is not

Emily 7:34
the eyebrows though. They’re so in right now. I know. I know. Okay, you said that you always do the smoke Turkey. Do you have any other big Thanksgiving traditions?

Rachel 7:46
You know, not anything super crazy. I have younger brothers who don’t live close. And then it’s really just us and my parents, obviously, because of COVID. We’re not doing anything crazy. So we eat. We have the fancy China at our house now that my grandparents from Denmark immigrated with, like, years and years before I was ever thought of. So we whip that out. And we talk about what we’re thankful for. But really, it’s just an excuse to drink a nice bottle of wine and gorge yourself. Yes. spend time together, which we pretty much do with my parents anyway, like every week, but this time, there’s Turkey. What about you guys?

Emily 8:28
Well, you know, I asked that question then was like, I don’t have a great answer either. It’s always just my parents, me and my younger brother. That’s my immediate family. And we basically just to us, it has been for probably almost 10 years now. We used to get together with more of the family. But now we kind of keep it keep it tight over here. We don’t necessarily have traditions though. The tradition is the food right? So yeah, my mom’s an incredible cook. She actually went to culinary school. I don’t know if you knew this, really, that she can like chop things really precise. And you know, but in the end, she also was the person who’s like, I don’t need a recipe. But so we just eat a lot and talk and probably watch a football game and sleep. And then my brother and I stay up late and talk because we don’t get to see each other all that often.

Rachel 9:27
That sounds so nice. My mom’s a really good cook, too. But it falls on me now. Because I’m the one who hosts but the only kind of I can’t remember if it was Thanksgiving or Christmas like she’s always been a fantastic cook but this one year. She like burnt the rolls. But oh no. And it’s been this family joke forever. Like Oh mom, I hope you don’t burn the rolls and it’s not funny. You should probably cut this part out. It was just like grands biscuits. But like still I was probably in high school and My brothers, whatever they’re around will still be like, remember that time you burnt those biscuits. She’s like somebody turned off my timer. Someone turned it off. I’m pretty sure it was my granny God rest her soul. Like somebody turned off that timer. She’s like, what’s this timer for? Yeah, it doesn’t matter. I’ll just turn it off. And just the bottom of the rolls,

Emily 10:20
and the bottom of the rolls when they’re burnt. I mean, you can rip that part off and eat the top, but it just kind of ruins it because that is the part that gets brown and crusty. Yeah, that’s the best part. I

Rachel 10:29
make my rolls from scratch though, as you know, and they’re my favorite. They’re delicious.

Emily 10:35
I had a couple of baking fails this weekend, which is a bummer for me because I don’t like failing at all. Oh, my God, I know, I’m sending out holiday boxes, to a few people who are paying me to send a box like the one that I made for you to their relatives for like a Christmas thing. And I’m testing recipes. And one of the recipes is an eggnog truffle, which sounds amazing. But the recipe was bad. And the truffle inside never really hardened up. And so it was very gooey. ended up making these like very like disfigured looking gross, white blobs. And then it was so sweet. I mean, sweet white chocolate sweet inside. It was so bad. I throw them all away. It was so sad.

Rachel 11:29
Oh, I hate when you have to throw things away my husband anytime I bake something and it comes out as a failure. Like it’s fine, but not worth the calories. Essentially. He’s like, well, we should just give it away. And that’s when I feel the most misunderstood by him that I’ve ever felt. Because I’m like, why would you assume that I would ever give away something that is less than perfect to people. They’re going to think this is my standard. If it’s not good enough for me, it’s not going to be good enough for others to see that I’ve done. No. One time I made something. It was like a pumpkin cake or something. I don’t know it. It tasted healthy. Do you know what I mean? And I do like to bake healthy. But if it tastes healthy, I won’t eat it. So it just tasted like you could taste the whole wheat flour. It was so gross. And I was gonna throw it away. And then when I wasn’t, I don’t know, I was chasing the kids around or something. And he snuck to the neighbor’s house and gave them some of this cake. And I said what are you doing? Like, what did you throw it away? He said, No, no, I took it to the neighbors. I’ve ever so heartbroken. I said, Now I’m gonna have to bake something else this weekend so that they know I’m actually good Baker. You can’t let them have that. And then you file divorce papers because that’s grounds for divorce. I think he now has to let me take baths and eat shrimp tacos. It all comes back around. He’s digging out of the doghouse. He is still making up for that what he did last year. It haunts a relationship before ever. For for you know, you know this, though, and I know that you feel this if it’s not perfect or close to perfect. Why would I let other people see it? I can’t I can’t do it.

Emily 13:14
I do. Oh my gosh, when I sent those boxes. So long the last episode Rachel talks about how I had sent her some goodies. And so I had made these boxes full of goodies to thank my friends. You know, I’m so grateful for you as Thanksgiving approaches. And every single box arrived safely and beautifully. Great goals. And mason jar had exploded and there was glass and cocoa everywhere inside of her bogs. And somehow the tape I’d put on it was much harder to get through. So she had to like rip the box open and I was just devastated. Because I’m like the one person I really wanted to see how good I am because she has high standards. Gets the shitty box but you know, you still love me.

Rachel 14:02
I absolutely still love you. And I have high standards for myself. Me. Yeah, me. You’re and I didn’t even really care because everything else in that box was delicious. So it was like okay, the cocoa broke. I was with you when we bought that cocoa. I know exactly where it is at Costco. So that it was the one thing that wasn’t homemade and everything that you had homemade was so good. But I mean that’s my thing is if it were me, I would have been heartbroken, but because it was you. I thought this is amazing. That’s so thoughtful.

Emily 14:38
Oh my gosh, PS I have all the butter that you bought at Costco. That big four pack of butter. I don’t know if we were missing it. Whoops. I brought all of that home with me. And you know we went to Costco on Wednesday. It was living in your truck for five days in the sun and oh god yeah, and but it’s still In our fridge, because does butter reconstitute, I don’t know. It never got melty, I googled it. And a lot of places were like, Don’t ever leave butter out for more than a day or whatever. But then all other places said, you just smell it. And if it smells fine, it’s still usable. But I’m too afraid. I don’t want to throw away so much good butter

Rachel 15:22
have your brother try the butter. It’s my favorite story from so my dad was in the Navy. When he was really young. It’s actually how he met my mom in San Diego. Spoiler alert. That’s where we’re going. But this isn’t the horrible part when my parents met, I swear, but and then they murdered someone. They’re happy. And then if they murdered someone, I don’t know about it. So ignorance is bliss. But my dad, the only story that he deemed appropriate for children was that when he was on the submarine, he would be on there for six months or more. And you have to keep a close eye on anything dairy. Because obviously, if it spoils, you know, you’re on a submarine, you got to get rid of it. And apparently, there was the stupid joke among the guys, where they said, Here, smell this ice cream, and they’d hand it to you and then shove your face in it, which just sounds like a joke, a bunch of a board like 19 year old guys would do on each other. 100%. So that’s, that’s the story. Now I like to FaceTime him when my kids are in the bath, playing with their submarines, and give him some flashbacks.

Emily 16:34
Here like trauma.

Rachel 16:38
Hey, I’m not his therapist.

Emily 16:39
Right? You don’t have to worry about that.

Rachel 16:42
Everything’s fine.

That is my worst nightmare career having to go in a submarine and go into the ocean. So deep. Oh my gosh, what if I just imagine the windows collapsing in and drowning/ Yeah, I don’t like that.

Yeah. Everyone’s dead. I mean, but not my dad. Did I not tell you? He said good. He’s, he’s fine. He did go gray, very young. And part of that. He was I think I said when they met, he was 23. And he had three gray hairs. But I remember him being fully gray by the time I was in high school. That could have been my doing. Is that why you go on the silver fox? It is. It is indeed silverfox. He started calling himself the silver fox. This is probably part of the reasons I’m a therapist. I always joke that it’s because of my parents. And they know that they’re in on the joke. But he was talking about going to some dive bar with my mom and getting hit on by some woman much older than the two of them. My parents were in their 40s at the time. And my dad was probably and this lady was probably like 65 and my mom excused herself to the restroom. And then this, you know, this mature woman in a very low cut top dad and flirted with him and my mom saw it and thought it was the funniest thing and was telling me this story later, I was probably like, 16 my dad goes, What can I say? Ladies love the silver fox and also print. It was it was so cringy but it is now our running joke. But he’s the silver fox. pop up the silver fox. It’s like a children’s book. Hi, dad. Don’t listen. Stop listening. Now you hate true crime. Why are you here? Speaking of true crime. Do you want to talk about some horrible shit? I do. I really do. I’m excited about my story this week. I can’t wait. And I know you’re first this week. So you have to tell me. Where are you going? What are you doing?

Emily 18:50
We are heading to the Grand Canyon. Not a city, actually, Canyon, but you know what? I found this insane story. And I figured I can do what I want. So I’m going to tell you, it’s your podcast. You can do what you want. So I’m going to actually tell you a little story to kind of kick things off. The day is June 30 1956. Henry and Pailin hojin two brothers. were flying a small air taxi through the Grand Canyon as part of their business Grand Canyon airlines. As Pailin was flying he noted a below of dense black smoke rising near temple Butte. Oh god Butte but Butte I don’t know how to say it the temple but no.

Rachel 19:41
It’s gotta be Butte is it be it’s gotta be Bali? For sure. Okay, but temple that sounds like the game nobody wanted to play on Legends of the Hidden temple. And now but it’s either the temple but or the aggro crag. Please go on. Okay.

Emily 19:59
He sees a dense. black smoke rising your temple beaut and worried that some brush had been set ablaze by a lightning strike. It had, after all been storming that day. He put the smoke out of his mind to focus on his customers until later in the day when a call came across his radio. The radio crackled and the operator announced a search and rescue mission. The mission was to locate the two commercial aircrafts that had gone missing earlier that day. hearing the news of the missing airliners Pailin remember the black smoke he had seen and realized it could have been smoke rising out of a post crash fire. He grabbed his brother Henry, and they flew their Piper tri Pacer aircraft a small lightweight plane deep into the canyon and search near the location where he had seen the smoke near the confluence of the Colorado and little Colorado rivers. The brothers came upon a terrible discovery. The Tale of a large plane was smashed into the jagged rocks at the bottom of the canyon. wreckage was scattered over the hillside, about 1000 feet above the river, and two fires were burning nearby. The next day, the two men continue to search. And after some time, they came upon another horrible site, the wreckage of a smaller but still significant, propeller driven transport plane. The men reported their findings to authorities and turn the investigation over to those more qualified to handle such devastation. devastation that I’m going to share with you today. As I tell you the story of the 1956 Grand Canyon, mid air collision of Transworld Airlines Flight two, and United Airlines Flight 7180. Shit, tell me everything. Yeah, it’s the craziest story to me. And I just plane crashes are one of those things that I never worry about. I fly all the time. I love to fly. But it’s a it’s a train wreck. It’s a plane wreck. You know, it’s I can’t look away from it. When I hear about it.

Rachel 22:06
You’re totally right. Because you don’t think about I mean, you think about car crashes, somebody who’s not paying attention or jumps in median drunk drivers, whatever. You don’t think about pilots not seeing each other because the air is so big, right? Like how are they not just able to avoid each other? I don’t know that. I will tell you. Okay, goosebumps. All righty.

Emily 22:30
So I’m going to tell you about the aircraft’s first and like kind of set up the routes that the planes were on because that’ll help visualize, okay, okay, Transworld airlines, or TWA, which is how most people refer to it was a Lockheed L 1049 Super constellation, which I have no freaking idea what that means. But they nicknamed it the star of the Seine, which was kind of cool. It was blown by Captain jack Ghandi First Officer James Ratner and Flight Engineer forest breyfogle, which are fucking fantastic names. All of them. They are I was like jack Gandy. He’s a comedy writer and his spare time. And fourth grade vocal. It’s incredible. He, he voices method on Fraggle Rock. That’s what he does. I’m pretty sure. I love it. I love it. Okay, so these folks, these three men are the pilots for the TWA Flight and that flight held 64 passengers, including 11 TWA off duty employees who were using free tickets that day, and six crew members a total of 73 people. It left la at 9am. And it was 30 minutes behind schedule, and it was heading to Kansas City. That’s going to be okay important that they were running a little late. Okay. Guardian while noted. Noted. Meanwhile, United Airlines Flight 718, nicknamed the main liner Vancouver, departed LA x just three minutes later at 9:04am heading towards Chicago. So this flight was flown by Captain Robert surely. First Officer Robert harms and Flight Engineer Gerard Fiore. Okay, he sounds sexy. And they had 53 passengers and five crew members aboard for a total of 61 people. So having just heard this information, has it does anything stand out to you as to where things could have gone wrong? started to go wrong?

Rachel 24:45
So I’m assuming because you told me to think about how it’s important that the first flight left late, that’s wrong, but they are flying the same direction. So they’re not because when they think collision, I think two different directions heading for each other, but they’re both heading east.

Emily 25:05
Yes. So they’re two flights both on similar paths. And they left the airport at like basically the same time. Which, right? I think about happens like every minute of every day these days, but in 1936, air traffic control was not really regimented as well as it should have been or effective as it is today. You know, because giant tubes of metal that are seemingly like magically soar through the sky should just no rules no rules for them.

Rachel 25:37
Have you seen the movie Mr. Deeds? yet? Do you know when it’s just like the one guy like deeds? He just this guy with a couple of like orange cones like land a helicopter? Yeah. That’s what I’m picturing in the 50s. One guy just hoping for the best. For us, I brought my rabbit’s foot.

Emily 26:00
I have a question. Do you know like, do you understand how planes fly?

Rachel 26:05
No, no, I don’t understand it at all.

Emily 26:08
Me neither. Like I’m not here to tell you. I didn’t even look it up to be like mind boggles me. I don’t understand it. Every time I fly. It’s like oh.

Rachel 26:23
This is apparently when we’re going to have Rachel and Emily’s glaring lapses in knowledge. That episode too. And everybody knows like, okay, they’re not great when sheen or knowing how any sort of Yeah, mechanical engineering, not our mo not what we do here. How does steamboats work? We don’t know. Yeah, planes fly. Fuck if I know. When exactly was the civil war that when we should know we do have a history podcast. We’ll get better guys. Stick with us. If you want facts, facts, and nothing but the facts. Go listen to dateline. This is not the podcast for you.

Emily 27:00
Yeah, dateline. We’ll get it. But we’re gonna get close. Yeah. Okay, back to it. Even though both planes were on similar paths at similar times, that in and of itself wouldn’t necessarily be cause for concern. But there are two big contributing issues to take into consideration here. One, it was storming and there were large cumulonimbus clouds forming in the sky. And to both planes were set to fly near the Grand Canyon. And back then the airlines permitted their pilots to execute maneuvers solely intended to improve passengers view of the canyon.

Rachel 27:40
So they could do like the the topsy turvy kind of let’s turn the plane so that everyone can see the beautiful crevices. I committed to that word. And then I said it. And then I immediately regretted saying it out loud.

Emily 27:59
I liked it. Yeah. So they could just like go a little bit off of their course, because they wanted their passengers to get to see the Grand Canyon, which nice to do. Unless it ends up killing everyone on board. You know, it’s given take

Rachel 28:15
Yes. Maybe more. Yeah, I mean, beautiful views versus your life. Depends how old you are. I guess. That’s true. If I’m like 95, and I see something beautiful. And then I hope that you’re going to tell me that the depth is quick and painless. Then like maybe your face is showing me maybe that’s not what you’re going to tell me.

Emily 28:44
Don’t look at my face.

Rachel 28:45
Oh, God, okay.

Emily 28:48
It is a video chat. Shit. Alright. So because of the storm that day, there were obviously visibility issues. And so both of the pilots were flying under something called instrument flight rules, or IRF. There are so many acronyms in this. I’m so sorry. Try to remember them all. There will be a quiz.

Rachel 29:06
I mean, I am a military spouse. So I’m really used to faking like I remember what letters mean, when I actually have no idea. So I’ve been training for this since I met my husband. Let’s do excellent.

Emily 29:19
Okay, so IRF is basically the rules that help pilots fly when the elements are making it hard to see. So if you’re flying IRF you’re most likely just referencing the instruments and all the gauges and switches and shit that are on the dashboard of the plane. I don’t think it’s called the dashboard, but whatever. And any like electronic signals coming from the ground.

Rachel 29:46
I think it is. Is it?

Emily 29:48
flight deck. I mean, I have that written somewhere. dashboard. Sounds good. Yeah, maybe. Oh, no dashboard is what I would call it. It’s the thing with the buttons. I’m with you.

Rachel 29:57
Yeah, got it. Command Center.

Emily 30:00
Yeah, that sounds fancy like NASA.

Rachel 30:03
Yeah, yeah.

Emily 30:05
So they’re mainly looking at, you know, the altitude thing and the altimeter and whatever. More so than just looking out with their eyes and flying that way, because it’s cloudy or, or whatever. So that’s where the trouble starts. Basically, let’s take a look at where the two flights are at basically, shortly after taking off from LA flight to which is the TWA Flight is flying at 19,000 feet in controlled airspace above Daggett California, which is north east of LA. And the captain turns slightly right to head toward Colorado and therefore, toward the Grand Canyon. And this turn, takes him into uncontrolled airspace. Around the same time, the United flight is flying at their authorized altitude of 21,000 feet in controlled airspace above Palm Springs, and Captain surely turns left, also towards Colorado, and also into uncontrolled airspace. Are you getting nervous?

Rachel 31:12
Yeah, I mean, you already told me what’s going to happen, but I still can feel myself clenching and preparing for it, you know, are you at all afraid of flying? I’m not. I’m actually a person who before I had kids really, really enjoyed taking a flight. I like to sit by the window and look out and then just like, take a nap generally fall asleep reading or listening to a podcast. Yeah, so I’m not afraid of flying. I might be after this story.

Emily 31:41
You definitely will be No, I’m just kidding. Luckily, we can’t fly anywhere right now. I love flying to I fly a lot for work. And so I’ve gotten really good at it. You know, I might be rusty now, but I love it. It’s just so simple and easy. And you can work while you go 500 miles across the country and a blink of an eye. It’s awesome. So once again, these two flights are in a similar but not exactly the same route. You know, for now they’re flying 2000 feet apart in altitude. Unfortunately, TWA Captain Gandy saw these Thunder heads forming near his flight path, and so he requested to climb altitude to 21,000 feet. But the TWA dispatcher did relay the request to air traffic control and ATC denied the request, because they knew that the two airlines would soon be entering that same controlled airspace, and that they’re both at the same altitude, it’s like, they’re going to be too close together, and it would break the new rules that they had. So Gandy, though was really concerned about these storm clouds. And so he requested something called 1000 on top clearance, which means he could fly 1000 feet above the clouds, and basically, like, temporarily suspend restrictions by air traffic control. But of course, that would limit how much information he’d be able to receive about things like how close other planes were. And he could only rely when he was in this 1000 feet on top area, on what he could see with his eyes, he can still use his things to tell him if he’s on his own path. But he wouldn’t have that access to the air traffic. People who are like, surely is coming up behind you, man, stay left or whatever. That’s how I picture.

Rachel 33:40
So if you’re driving a car, and I’m thinking 1950s cars versus like, my car, like my car tells me if something’s in my blind spot, and then we’ll shift the steering wheel to be like, Don’t hit that, you know, like, you bitch. Yeah, yeah, flashes orange. And then it’s like, you got babies in here. This is a mini dance. So I’m assuming like, and my cars for you. It couldn’t have done that. I mean, the car I had before this didn’t do that. So being able to recognize that an airplane probably still doesn’t do that. But they don’t have in the 50s the same capabilities to see all around them that they probably do in airplanes today.

Emily 34:22
Exactly, exactly. And so it’s getting dicey here. They’re getting closer and closer to each other candies going up top to 1000 on top over the clouds and he is no longer in contact with the people below to tell him where any other planes are. Meanwhile, surely his mind in his own business trying to fly that Chicago and you know, also dealing with the clouds and things like that. And so for some reason, when he requested you know his changing his altitude to 1000 on top aka 21,000 feet, it was granted Which was just a fatal mistake made by air traffic control. Because like I just said, the United pilot Captain surely was not notified either. He he had no idea that Gandy was coming in hot. Danny had no idea surely was even there. It’s just not great. So even though both aercap cross flying over the same area, same altitude, same time, neither of them knows that this is coming.

Rachel 35:31
Are they both talking to this same one air traffic controller guy like I’m picturing from Mr. Deeds, or are they may be talking to like, is the one guy like taking a piss break and just doesn’t hear the one? And that’s why it gets declined or like, gotten up a lady? Yeah, he’s chatting up the one lady who happens to be there.

Emily 35:52
Yeah. Right, the one that they allowed to come in and give them drinks.

Rachel 35:56

Emily 35:58
Hey a lady. She cooks for them. I actually did look up or part of a another article that I had read said that back then it was kind of weird, like TWA, the pilot would have to contact his people on the ground with TWA to talk to them, and then they would contact air traffic control. So there was this whole middleman situation. So I’m assuming united was doing a similar thing. So they maybe were talking to the same air traffic controller, but it was coming down from like, two different pilots to two different airlines, and then over to them, so I don’t know.

Rachel 36:38
So really, horrible discombobulated game of telephone, super,

Emily 36:43
super lack of communication here. And so, as the two aircraft approached the Grand Canyon, they were likely maneuvering around these towering clouds. And as they became close to the canyon, it’s believed that they actually passed the same cloud on opposite sides. So they’re getting closer and closer, parallel to one another.

Rachel 37:08

Emily 37:09
it gives me the creeps. It gives me the freaking

Rachel 37:12
goosebumps. I know me just chills. That. It’s so it’s so creepy. Yeah.

Emily 37:19
Cuz you can just picture it right? It’s just like they have no idea when it’s coming. Yes, at 10:30am. dispatchers in Salt Lake City received a call from the United pilot. That was indecipherable. They later deciphered it. But so we know what he said. He said, Salt Lake United 718. We’re going in, which I assume means they are going into the cloud. Right or something I don’t know. That’s the only thing I can think of going into in the sky. And then at 1031, one minute later, the flight pads of the two aircraft intersected over the canyon. The United pilots likely saw the other plane just before impact and tried to correct their path. Because in that same transmission that Salt Lake received, they heard Captain surely in the background, saying pull up pull up and struggling with the controls. Oh my god. And then the United planes left wing clipped the top of the TWA vertical stabilizer, which is the thing on the tail, you know, that sticks up to keep them going forward, and then struck the body of the plane just ahead of the stabilizer, causing the tail to break off of the TWA plane. And then the propeller of the United plane trapped a series of gashes into the bottom of the TWA plane, which caused instantaneous explosive decompression, and scattered cabin furnishings and personal effects all over a large area. Oh my god, I have to say, I’m hoping that explosive decompression means that all the air was sucked out and they passed out like that’s all I can help. Yeah, but they passed out and didn’t experience what was coming. Oh God, okay, because after the tail was separated from the TWA plane, they immediately lost control, and the aircraft entered a near vertical terminal velocity drive and plunged into the Grand Canyon at an estimated speed of 477 miles per hour. Holy shit is slams into the North Slope of a ravine, located on the Northeast slope of Temple Butte and basically disintegrated on impact instantly killing everyone aboard. And then of course, an intensifier breaks out fueled by the aviation gasoline which is I think, from what I’ve heard burn super hot. Which is like the the fire that the Hudson brothers saw at the beginning of the story at the same time. The impact mangled the United flights right wing or wing. And it could no longer keep itself afloat. And then its engine was damaged. And so the combined loss of lift and propulsion, left it, you know, crippled and so it rapidly starts descending in a spiral.

Rachel 40:20
Did they see the other plane go down first and then just have this that’s what’s going to happen to us kind of horrible moment.

Unknown Speaker 40:29
Obviously that’s not no one knows that but I have to picture it the first plane literally nosedive straight down really fast. And the second plane. Yeah, kind of like spins. So that’s obviously a slow descent. So yeah, I mean, they probably saw that going on. And then I mean, the pilots tried, I’m sure to, to recover. But that was impossible. And the plane collided with the south side of the canyon and again, disintegrated killing everyone on board. I have had chills since I started telling this because this is one of those things that I start thinking about, and I can’t get it out of my head. I Yes, I’m a really empathetic person. And you are too and so I can very easily put myself in other people’s shoes. And so I struggle with this part of the story, because I think you just alluded to kind of being in that headspace to where it’s like I keep picturing those people’s last moments, and how terrifying it would have been. And it just hurts my heart to think about. Yes, I really struggled with Kobe Bryant’s death this year for the same reason. Yeah, I don’t care about basketball. I don’t care about Kobe Bryant, but it it hurt my heart to think about the last moments. You know, it just sounds awful. Yeah. So again, yeah, I like really, really hope that the cabin pressure loss caused him to pass out and then impact it was just fast and done. But you know, yeah, nobody really knows.

Rachel 42:05
Well, I mean, it’s our story. It’s our podcast. So if we decide this horrible thing happened, and the first plane, they felt nothing, the second plane, they saw the first plane and probably were terrified. I can’t imagine feeling anything other than shock or denial, or just straight up fear gaming terror. Yeah. But I have to, because it’s our podcast. And at some point we’re going to have to sleep tonight. We have to say they died on impact. They didn’t feel pain. Yep. executive decision, boom, decision made.

Emily 42:43
Done. Okay, let’s talk about aftermath. So neither one of the planes had homing beacons or black boxes. And so although those 100 brothers kind of knew where the plane was, and where I had landed, the last position of the planes, the last report they had gotten was that Salt Lake transmission that had gone and so they didn’t really know, first of all, that the planes would crash, or second of all, where they crash, they just kind of knew some trouble had happened, because they got that transmission have surely been like, up, up, and then it went silent. So of course, you know, the husband brothers reported what they’d found. And then there were numerous helicopter missions, flying down to the crash sites to try to identify victims, or recover the wreckage from the accident analysis, but it’s 1000 feet up on the side of the Grand Canyon. Like, I don’t know, if you’ve been on Canyon, I assume you would know that there’s, I’ve actually never been. So I’m just assuming, but it’s on my bucket list. That’s why I chose this. But yeah, so it’s like, it’s hard to get to it, right. And so they’re flying these helicopters out there, and they can’t get to anything. And the air currents are really crazy in the Grand Canyon, too. So helicopters, I’m sure like, whoo, like flying around. And so eventually, they had to hire Swiss Air Rescue and Swiss mountain climbers to go to the scene and gather the remains of the passengers and other items. And, you know, unfortunately, the place where the plane crash, like I said, was so jagad and severe, that no bodies were recovered intact. And in fact, positive identification of most of the remains was not possible.

Rachel 44:36
I can’t decide if that’s better, or worse, you know, I don’t know because then if you’re and this is that empathetic headspace again, but when you can’t identify your family member your loved one, is it like okay, this is so it doesn’t even look like a person to me so it doesn’t feel real. So either I don’t have closure. Or maybe I just say, okay, that must have been quick. Yeah, versus if you see a person who looks more intact looks more like face suffered.

Emily 45:11
Yeah, I get where you’re coming from. Where if like there’s just a, like a gash in their head and it’s like, how long did they lay there and suffer? This is getting so morbid, but like elite athlete that disintegration on impact. It’s like, well, it was fast. You know, there’s this incredible photo that I’ll put up on the Instagram of this woman in the St. Louis airport, oddly enough, and her eyes are super wide. Because she had they had just gotten reports of the flight crashing and her one of her sisters was on it. But it’s just like, I don’t know who snapped this photo. But that moment of like, Oh my God, this happened. It’s it’s chilling. It’s like bone chilling. It’s awful, beautiful photo, terrible experience awful. Also, a crazy photo that I will post 29 unidentified victims at the United flight were entered in for coffins at the Grand Canyon sanitary, which tells you how devastating it was that they could put 29 people inside of four coffins. And 66 of the 70 TWA passengers are all interred in a mass grave at citizen Cemetery in Flagstaff, which there’s this sobering photo of the 66 coffins all lined up in a row to go into this big hole. It’s just chilling. I, it’s awful. Because it’s like you said, How do you have closure if you can’t even identify your person? And there’s in a mass grave somewhere. And so yeah, all in all, all 120 people on those two planes lost their lives. There were no survivors, of course. And obviously, this got a lot of publicity. There were dozens of investigations that came out of this crash, and they actually got a board together to determine who was at fault. You know, that’s what’s most important. Who can we blame?

Rachel 47:12
I mean, both of the people both of the main pilots are dead. So what are we going to do?

Emily 47:17
Can we put on trial for this? Yeah, and they basically determined that weather and the air worthiness of the two planes did not play a role. And they also said that neither flight crew was specifically implicated in their findings, but it was cited that Captain Gandy deciding to take, you know, cancel that IFR flight plan and fly 1000 on top was ultimately the catalyst for the accident. Yeah, but then it was the lack of visibility, combined with insufficient air traffic information. You know, those were the straw that broke the camel’s back, you know, at 128 fatalities. The collision was the deadliest us commercial airline disaster, and deadliest air crash on US soil of any kind. Actually, until December 16 of 1960 when a new york mid air collision happened, also involving united and TWA, like get your shit together, you guys, I can’t believe the United Still, this is why I fly Southwest. Oh my god, I know, United has such bad publicity all the time, too. But so because of the magnitude of the event, and you know, the worldwide press and everything the public latched on, and again, they really wanted to find someone to blame. And so that air traffic controller who gave Captain Ghandi approval to go 1000 on top was publicly blamed for the accident by both the airlines. And he was vilified in the press for a while until finally he was cleared of wrongdoing. But I mean, that kind of shit sticks with you, you know? Yes. And then in general, people really started to realize how primitive the ATC or air traffic control was, which was like really concerning, because this was right around the time that people were starting to trust air travel and travel more for work and just for like vacations and stuff. So you know, they’re like, Oh, shit, maybe we shouldn’t do this anymore. Of course, it piqued political interest and a congressional committee got together. And they ultimately found out that at the time of the crash, air traffic control was functioning and reflecting the methods of the 1930s instead of the 1950s. So I got another quick cue as to why shit happened it, you know, super ancient approach to things. And so the public demanded action. And the government you know, increased funding to modernize the air traffic control and they hired more controllers more than one like on the studies. Got radar and everything. And so today, you know, we are benefiting from this because we have better radar and better satellite satellite surveillance. They don’t even use 1000 on top operations anymore. And then to make us feel a little better about flying again someday, hopefully in the future, an FAA spokesperson, in the article I read said that the radar and satellite surveillance we have today is far different from what existed 60 years ago. And as a result, pilots typically don’t even need to fly above the weather. And if they do need to, like if turbulence is bad enough that they need to request an altitude change, they have super, super strict rules, and the air traffic will only grant the request if it’s like 100% safe to do so. So I guess there was a ton of mid air collisions happening back then. I read multiple, there were multiple within a couple of years. And so I don’t think I’ve heard of a mid air collision ever in my lifetime, you know, thank God.

Rachel 51:07
I mean, unless you’re counting like, like 911, which was intention? and intentional. Yeah, like an unintentional? I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I’m, I’m still stuck on the fact that it was like 1930s. And this happened in the 1950s. So it’s 2020. Now, think about the technology we had in the year 2000. I was downloading music from Napster lately, constantly. I did not have a cell phone. I mean, constantly. Please don’t come for me. I don’t still have it. But I paid for Pandora and now. But it’s like, yeah, this is so 20 years in technology makes a ridiculous amount of difference.

Emily 51:53
Ridiculous PS, one of my high school classmates actually got caught for Napster and had a super fine. They were going if they said if she would have gone to court for it, it would have probably been like $90,000. So she settled out of court for God like $7,000 or something. But yeah, I shocked me because we were like, wait, that can actually come after you. I thought our parents were just telling us this was bad. Yes. How much was she downloading? Yes. My parents used to tell me the same thing. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I didn’t.

Rachel 52:25
It’s our internet. wasn’t that good. We couldn’t dothat.

Emily 52:29
My God, it took like, 30 minutes. Don’t remember when you download a song. And you get to the very end. And you’re like, yes. And I mean, I go back to your queue. And then it would like go back to your queue or your computer was shut down or something. It was just heartbreaking. So yeah,

Rachel 52:47
it was like I just want to listen to 98 degrees and feel my feelings. The days of like denim jumpsuits, big thing matching denim jumpsuit, matching denim jumpsuit. Hey, Britney and Justin.

Emily 53:01
Oh, my God. Yeah, so it did have some positive effects, you know, because they ended up, it really spurred on this whole thing. We need better regulations and federal regulations and radar, you know, that normally was just for the military. And so they’re like, Okay, this probably is a good, good idea to have this on all of our planes. So yeah, and then, I guess the last thing I’ll say is that on April 22, of 2014, the site of the crash was declared a National Historic Landmark, making it the very first landmark for an event that happened in the air. Oh. And so the location is now known as crash Canyon. And it’s only which is so crass, you know, and a crash crash. Can you say that three times fast? Yes. It’s only accessible to hikers. But it is a popular tourist attraction, probably by the morbid curious and people like us, because some of the wreckage is still there. And one article said glistening in the sun to remind those who visit of the tragic the Oh, my god, that was horrifying. That was amazing. It’s It is one of the more shocking stories I’ve ever read, just because it was so scary leading up to it. You know, it’s that concept of Oh my god, it’s coming. It’s coming. It’s coming. And they don’t know when it’s gonna be bad. And

Rachel 54:27
yeah, yes, absolutely. I am. I have such mixed feelings about you going first? Partially because that was so good and so heavy that I’m not sure I can follow it. Yes. And partially because my story my story literally starts with an anchormanbecause I love anchorman so much it is and yeah, that’s what my very first line because I typed out my story. Ah, Santiago. Drink it in it always goes down smooth. covered by the chairman in 1904. They named it San Diego which of course in German means a whale’s vagina. That can’t be right. I love Veronica Corning. Sounds like that can’t be right. Doesn’t it mean? St. Diego? No, no, no, no, there’s no way that’s correct. Yeah. Fun fact that please feel free to cut out but when I used to do karaoke, you know, I used to be a person who really enjoyed karaoke before I had kids and before it was good. I used to sing under the name Veronica Corning sound that that is. That is how much I love. This might be so good. But even without Ron Burgundy, San Diego has a really special place in my heart. Like I said a little earlier. My parents met in San Diego. My mom is from there. My husband is also from San Diego. None of those people will ever listen to this podcast, but they still grew up there. We still have some family there who were really close to. And although it’s got beautiful beaches and year round, perfect weather. It’s also had its fair share of awful I had a lot to choose from. Really. Have you been there to San Diego.

Emily 56:16
I actually went there on a business trip a couple years ago, probably. And I just remember thinking I could live here easily. It was November and it was 75 degrees. Incredible weather, gorgeous beaches, like amazing sunsets, and I was just I love it there. It’s my favorite city in California for sure. Though I have not, it’s gorgeous. But la sucks and San Diego’s awesome.

Rachel 56:46
Yes, yeah, I remember I think we were living in Colorado at the time. And we had called My aunt Joanne just to chat my mom’s sister. And she was like, you guys. It’s so cold here today. I had to put on socks. And it was December or January and we were like fuck you. I mean we. But it’s like 20 degrees in Colorado like this six feet of snow outside. Okay, but yes, yes. I’m sorry about your socks. It’s probably 55 degrees. There. seems very cool. So I have never been a person who fucks with the supernatural. It’s not necessarily that I’m a believer. I guess I kind of think of ghosts the same way I think about bees like you leave them alone and they leave you alone. Nobody gets stung. Nobody gets haunted. But a few years ago, I was sitting on this patio of a brewery to remember breweries. Gorgeous. I just want to go there wineries to Yes, yes, I was having this lovely conversation with a friend holding a beer. And a bee flew up, landed on my beer holding hand and stunned me out of nowhere. So my theory probably doesn’t hold a ton of water. You’re ignoring it. It’s still Sunday. And apparently that means you could still get fucking haunted. Do you believe in ghosts? I have to know.

Emily 58:13
I have like a mixed feeling answer for you. Because I too, do not like to fuck with the supernatural. I think because I do believe in it in some capacity. But I also am the person who in middle school, my friends and I were playing with a Ouija board which now I would never fucking touch a Weegee board. But in middle school we did. And in middle school, I was that dick who I would lay on my stomach. And like be we’d all be around in a circle. And I would like use my foot to push the plant that was in the background and be like, plants moving. So basically, we keep revealing that I am a sociopath, especially when I was in high school. But But now that’s going to be the end of this podcast when you kill me, like live stream somewhere. No, never. But I also I’m like definitely the person who I believe. I don’t know. I believe in ghosts as much as I believe in demons.

Rachel 59:18
Yeah, yeah. That’s our super Christian upbringing. For sure. Probably. This story isn’t that my story, believe it or not, is a little bit lighter than yours. But I’m going to tell you about the most haunted house in America. The Whaley house. Have you heard of it?

Emily 59:39
I’ve been there.

Rachel 59:40
You have been there?? SHut your dirty whore mouth

Emily 59:44
when I was in San Diego

Rachel 59:45
I will punch you in the ovaries! .

Emily 59:47
Okay, go ahead. When I was in San Diego on a business trip. My parents were on a cross country trip like they were driving across America together. And they were to be in San Diego around the time I was. So we all we met up hung out and we went to the Whaley house. Although I don’t know anything about it other than that the entire time I was there. I was trying to take picture I just I have like 1000 pictures of the rooms in the house because I kept hoping one of the pictures would have a ghost in it, but none Oh my God,

Rachel 1:00:17
I cannot even tell you. Okay, so our story takes place in Old Town San Diego, which according to the tourist website features, acres of Mexican heritage, historical sites, colorful shops, eclectic restaurants, a theater and tons more to explore. Probably all of it shut down our data COVID. But if you go in non COVID times, I’m sure it’s lovely. Honestly, though, every time I go to San Diego, I cannot get enough of the food. I could be happy just laying out by a pool eating Mexican food and sushi every day just until I fall asleep.

Emily 1:00:54
It’s amazing. When we were in Old Town, we got Mexican at this little place like near the Whaley house, and it was so good, like Mexican food so good down there. Mm hmm.

Rachel 1:01:04
I went to sushi with my my cousin’s wife, I don’t know years ago, and she’s a vegetarian. And so we went for sushi. And it was so nice. And we were talking about what Colorado is known for in terms of food and what California is known for, because I was like, Oh my god, these avocados are so fresh. They’re amazing. And she goes, Yeah, well, we pretty much just pick them right off the trees. And she goes, what’s what’s Colorado known for? And I just kind of said, meat and beer just which is also delicious. in present day, the Whaley house is located in Old Town, San Diego, and I’ll post a picture of it on our Instagram. It has a mid 19th century Greek Revival architecture. And it’s now a museum like you said, you can go there. It’s really cute. It is this beautiful right brick house. And it’s got this second story porch with white columns. It does not look like a haunted house. It really doesn’t. It doesn’t and they the insides all decorated and cute. And they give tours with like, in the old timey dress, you know, it’s precious. Yeah. That’s so cute. So our story starts in the 1850s. So in the 1850s, Old Town, San Diego was all of San Diego. That’s why they call it Old Town. It was the old town. California had just become a state in 1850 after the Mexican American war, and people were rushing west to find their fortunes. This was like peak Gold Rush. Let’s talk about Thomas Whaley. He was a smarty pants. He moved from New York to California during the gold rush. But brilliantly. Instead of searching for gold, he decided to start a business to sell to all the miners who move their eyes. Needless to say, he made a metaphorical killing. I feel like in this podcast, the metaphorical part is very important. Technically, no one, but I’ll get into that. This story is kind of broken up into a couple parts because of the history podcast. So I’m going to talk about the history of the Whaley family, and kind of what happened and the bad shit that happened to them. And then I’m going to get into more of the hunting stuff. So we’re going to do so the way least we’re wealthy, as in everyone else’s walking around, and their petticoats and the whateleys are traveling in horse drawn carriage. Spoiler alert. This was the only carriage in town eventually making it the very carriage that was used in a botched execution of the man who made later on Thomas Whaley and his family. So the year is 1852 Jim Robinson more commonly called Yankee Jim was basically that’s his name everybody called him Yankee Jim I don’t know why the accent This is California they don’t have that accent there but that’s when somebody says Yankee Jim I want to go Yeah. Hi. Did you ever watch her cuz that reminded me of Mr. Hankey the Christmas. So that’s Yankee jam. Only instead of a Christmas, who is the town drunk? And most people tolerated him. They were just like, oh, that’s just Jim. He’s a petty thief. He basically he stole a lot of horses. Which people I think thought was kind of funny or charming. They just kind of tolerated him, but eventually he stole a boat from a prominent townsmen for a quick fishing trip up to Point Loma. So he sailed the boat, returned it intact, and promptly got drunk and went to sleep. So if you ask me, aside from the fact that stealing The boat would now be what we call a felony. It sounds like a pretty good day. Right? Right.

Emily 1:05:06
Oh my gosh. And I like how he’s just like did I’m not taking this in malicious ways. I just want to go fishing man, I want to tan. I want to drink a beer. I want to just be on the water.

Rachel 1:05:19
Yes, he just wanted to lay out and maybe get some fresh sushi and just be shitting live in his mind when he came back? Yes, he was apparently still shit tanked when he came back and they kind of like arrested him while he was taking a nap. I don’t think I read that down, but I read it in places. But at this point, this prominent towns man and the local other San Diegans they’re just tired of the Enki gems bullshit. So they put together this kangaroo coat, kangaroo coat that is like karela de Ville shit kangaroo court, which is it’s a show court where they’re going to find the person guilty no matter what. And not actually a court of kangaroos, which is kind of disappointing. But regardless, yeah, Yankee jam was sentenced to death by hanging. And they were like, let’s do it right now. Yes. So a quick side note about the 1850s. How tall Do you think the average man was? five, seven. Close. They were five by night. And Yankee jam was six foot four. They hung him and he just stood on. Wait for it. So I only I only found one picture of him. So picture Abe Lincoln, but without the beard or the hat. So just like a tall guy with a very Angular face. So like I said, almost almost immediately after Jim was found guilty. The court built makeshift gallows in which he was hauled up on a wagon with a rope around his neck. Then the wagon was pulled away. And his feet were meant to hang. But they scraped the ground. Remember, this dude was tall, and I really hope he was drunk, because it took about 45 minutes for him to be slowly strangled to death. Ah, yes, awful. The Whaley House Museum quotes a local newspaper saying he kept his feet in the wagon as long as possible, but was finally pulled off. He swung back and forth like a pendulum until he strangled to death. Maybe this is a good part to say trigger warning. Trigger warning. Trigger warning. It happens. This is a true crime podcast seriously.

Emily 1:07:34
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of the death penalty. I’m not for it. But that sounds fucking brutal. God, yikes.

Rachel 1:07:42
Yes. Yeah, they were like, not only are we going to build this just for you right now, but we’re not even going to take your height into account. Just gonna do a shitty job about it’s so fucked up. Oh, poor Jim. So, Thomas Wally of the Whaley house was not only present at Jim’s death, but like I said, it was his carriage that Jim’s feet were standing on. He had the only carriage in town. But apparently Mr. Willie did not believe in karma. Because five years later, in 1857, he built a business right on top of the place Yankee gym was executed that same area. Initially, this was just going to be a business over the years. It’s been a grainery, a courthouse, a general store, a theater, and the morgue ironically, also, it became a mansion and the Whaley family moved in, and as an extra buck due to the spiritual world. The property was also adjacent to the oldest Catholic Cemetery in California, l camposanto. Yankee Jim was buried there along with about 450 other people. Apparently they wanted to do like a Catholic burial for him to save his soul because they thought this drunk this truck motherfucker does not stand a chance.

Emily 1:09:00
Meanwhile, Mr. Wally is fucking asking for it. Like he’s like, just like, what can I do to get you to come back and haunt me?

Rachel 1:09:11
sell to the miners like he doesn’t give he gives zero fucks he really does. I also have a quick side note. Um, so in the late 1800s, just a little extra history. San Diego was growing rapidly. Everybody was moving out there. So in 1889, a horse drawn streetcar line, which I’m pretty sure it’s just an old timey way of saying Street was constructed through this cemetery. Okay, people, But wait, there’s more. The headstones weren’t moved. Or I’m sorry, the headstones were moved, but the bodies weren’t. And the part of San Diego that is now Old Town grew around this cemetery. I walked there. Now, you probably are although in 1996 so probably before you walk there, local businesses combined resources to make amends with the dead. Apparently they were having content that I didn’t see exactly what was going on with them but enough that a bunch of businesses where like we need to pay for a legit exorcism. So they conducted this exorcism and they used ultrasound equipment to locate the graves, because some of them are under San Diego Boulevard. Oh, yes. Yes. So they put up gravestones and memorials and apparently things have been pretty quiet since then. So you’re probably not haunted. But this was about 100 years later that when Thomas Whaley built it so he poured Thomas so back to the late 1850s and 1857 Thomas Whaley pumps up the house, and in 1858 bad shit starts to happen to this family. Thomas Whaley loses his third, born his namesake to scarlet fever, which doesn’t sound that unique in the mid 1800s. But still, later that year, the family store because it was a business and a house right, the store part burned to the ground. So the way Lee’s decided they’re going to leave the house and move back to San Francisco.

Emily 1:11:30
Nice to be in like peace out motherfuckers does somebody else’s property?

Rachel 1:11:38
Uh huh. And unfortunately, that’s not the end of the story. I mean, you think that witnessing a death on the property before you build the house and then losing your son, and then losing your store would be enough for you to figure out how to save yourself from the inside out. But Thomas Wally was persistent. So he he goes up to San Francisco, he makes a little bit more money, and he comes back to the cursed home with all sorts of shit from San Francisco to keep up with his business in San Diego. He even rents out the upstairs, which is a theater to a troupe called the tanner troupe. Tragically, Thomas Tanner died after their first performance. Shocking. But wait, there’s more. Including Thomas Whaley, Jr, the one who passed during infancy. There were six children born into the Whaley family. Violet elote violet, Eloise, how beautiful is that? I love that I’m violent. It’s a beautiful name. She’s number five. Unfortunately, she married an asshole who left her in the middle of the night on her honeymoon.

Emily 1:12:47
He didn’t even it’s like Kim Kardashian. 72 hours later, peace and out of the marriage. God wasn’t she 72 days? You’re right. Later, look forward. gave her some credit. It was a couple of months. Okay. I

Rachel 1:13:09
I guess apparently, violet got some serious I told you so it’s from her family who told her that this guy was a current matter con artists and only wanted to marry her for her giant ass dalry. Regardless.

Emily 1:13:24
Yay. Like a youngest child like mom and dad don’t want me to marry this guy. I’m marrying him.

Rachel 1:13:31
He loves me. It’s not for the sheep and cows. He loves me. My personality. Um, that part’s funny. This part is not. So he he leaves her and she ends up completing suicide in the home by shooting herself shortly after her quick marriage ended and we sure that she didn’t she leaves because ladies don’t usually shoot themselves up right. They usually don’t. But there’s a lot of evidence and she left a suicide note where she quotes Thomas hoods. Bridge of Sighs it says mad from life’s history. Swift two deaths mystery, glad to be hurled anywhere anywhere out of this world. heartbreaking. So sad. It’s very poetic. I mean, it’s a poem. So obviously, you know, it’s just a nice, poetic and they don’t you dare cut that. The whateley family also lost a granddaughter Thomas Wiley’s granddaughter to this house. A slow and painful death due to and this is horrible. Accidentally eating rauzan No. There were also family members who died of natural causes in the home. the creepiest part of this houses history to me is a quote from Thomas Whaley before it was built He said, my new house when completed will be the handsomest, most comfortable and convenient place in town or within 150 miles of year. He’s wrong. He is dead wrong. Nope, he is wrong. Yikes. So, not only is there historical evidence of bad shit happening, but remember, this place is haunted. So let’s get into that. Yeah, apparently, Thomas Whaley himself was the first person to hear disembodied footsteps on the second floor when he was home alone. According to Thomas’s wife, Anna Whaley, there was a presence in the house that surrounded her she could not shake off eventually, and regarded the property to be doomed. And the cause of all the tragedy in her life.

Emily 1:15:53
That is a lot of pressure to put on a house. No, I think it’s probably true. The house has bad juju for sure. I this concept of like, a bad presence. I don’t know have you ever felt anything like that? Because I never have. Maybe it goes in feeds into my like, I don’t really believe in ghosts, but I know people who have said, you know, I’ve felt a presence and it’s scary or whatever.

Rachel 1:16:23
I never had them. I don’t think I felt a supernatural presence. I for sure. met people before and gotten weird dangerous vibes from them but not been able to explain it. Right. Or like in session I can tell that somebody is holding something back but I don’t know but things like that. But no, I haven’t felt like a spooky presence anywhere. Their children the Whaley children also reported supernatural experiences and these children stay in this home. So even though Anna Whaley thinks the property is doomed, she ends up dying in the house when she’s old. She’s it’s like somewhere in the 1900s. But Francis Hinton Whaley who’s the oldest. He works to restore the home because it had fallen into some disarray in the early 19 hundred’s apparently he would close all of the windows and the curtains and try to communicate with the spirit spire. Lillian Whaley, another one of the children would rent out parts of the house to borders when she got older, and many of the borders also reported feeling an odd vibe throughout the home. In addition to Yankee Jim reportedly haunting the place. It said that Thomas and Anna Whaley along with their children are hunting the home also. And to me, this is way more adorable than spooky. People have seen the family dog Dolly chasing the family cat winks throughout the house and into the garden. How cute was that? It’s like a Tom and Jerry situation. It’s so much cuter.

Emily 1:18:00
I want a ghost cat… then it will be acceptable for me to have three cats.

Rachel 1:18:05
Out totally. If one of them is actually a ghost, you can have as many cats as you want. That’s those are the rules. It’s our podcast, we make the rules. That’s how it works. Here are some of the things that people have reported witnessing at the White House. Chairs, rocking, chandelier swinging, doors, opening and closing. Children running a mother singing lullabies. The sound of a piano being played though there’s no piano in the house what the smells of fresh baked bread and pies during the holidays, which sounds amazing. And the sounds of cutlery against fine bone, China, which is a horrifying sound without it being attached to a ghost. Did you see or hear any of those things when

Emily 1:18:52
you really tried to see anything? Nothing like I would sit and I would go into one of the rooms and slowly pan and like look at every single thing in the room and take pictures of every centimeter of the room and look at the chandelier and look at the whatever chair and I never saw a damn thing. But they have pictures. They have like a picture book and pictures that people have taken to have like a figure in them and you know it? Yeah, I was so disappointed that I didn’t have an experience.

Rachel 1:19:26
We’ll have to go again. Yeah, we’ll have to go again. But some of the more vivid spiritual accounts came from people who reported feeling an odd pressure when they’re walking up the stairs, specifically around the ninth step. Oh, the belief is that it’s Anna Whaley, reliving a traumatic event and attempting to keep visitors from coming to the second floor. And when they do arrive on the second floor, many perceive a profound feeling of sadness, which is attributed to violet Whaley, the daughter who completed suicide Yeah, sad, a little bit happier. Thomas Whaley himself wearing pantaloons of brat code in the top hat has been witnessed standing at the top of the stairs surveying his castle. Anna has also been seen sitting in the parlor drinking tea or reading a book, The Lord of the home still there. I mean, I, I’d much rather see that or Winx running around than the profound feeling of sadness.

Emily 1:20:26
That would be I didn’t have that. But can you imagine walking into a room and all of a sudden just being like, like, hit by a wall of sadness? creepy.

Rachel 1:20:36
I mean, yes, but only because of my profession. I mean, I do couples therapy. So I’m more likely to walk into a room and be like, it’s angry and hear

Emily 1:20:48
from you just put it out there. You’re like, Whoa, tension.

Rachel 1:20:54
I actually do do that because it breaks the tension or it lets them see like, it feels weird in here if you want to talk about anything, and then usually they do. That’s why they’re there. I want to end with a dramatic reading from Reddit, from Nancy hw, who visited the white house in 2015. She said I was just there last night. I’ve always been a bit iffy on the idea of the paranormal. I’m pretty sure I saw ghosts once but I was pretty high at the time. But the Whaley house, not cool. I had a horrible headache from the instant I stepped in and I was very dizzy. And I’m not one who is prone to having the vapors. Upstairs. I saw these bright balls of light just zooming around. They were fast. I also took a picture of the corner in the courtroom that is supposedly a vortex said the guide. My best friend took one A minute later. In my picture, there is something in that quarter, three bright lights and a black face. Not African American black. As in the color black. The figure is leaning toward the room as if it’s about to leap felt a few very cold spots. Once I stepped out of the house, headache and dizziness, gone. I’ve never felt anything like that. And I hope never to again. The pictures I took several have a lot of foggy wisps of I don’t even know. I don’t have any explanation for what I saw or felt. But to my dying day, I’ll say this. That place is fucking on. And that is the story of geikie Jim’s death and the Wally

Emily 1:23:01
desperately want to meet Nancy AWS. She’s done awesome.

Rachel 1:23:09
Places that she put capital where it’s I had to do them justice. This place is fucking hot. There’s colons. There’s ellipses. It is dramatic. I had to read it in the dramatic voice. Nancy. Thank you.

Emily 1:23:26
That was so good. And I have to say being having been there. It’s so funny because I’m like picturing it in my head. Which is somehow like really creepy to me. But oh, I just love the haunting. Oh, I love a good haunted story. That was so good.

Rachel 1:23:45
Thank you. Thank you and it’s still history. But yeah, man, there’s backup shipping happen there. Yankee jam. Alright.

Emily 1:23:53
I cannot believe that they just built a road through the cemetery. Come on. Yeah. I mean, it’s been exercise. I will say so. I don’t really think that I have a ghost but I have had one experience in my house. Okay, a couple. Okay, I’ve had five it’s fun. Okay. There’s a ghost that lives with me. It’s fine. Her name’s Gertrude, everything’s fine. Two times. I have like this bar, which is actually an Ikea shelf that I have, like screwed. You know, you can buy those, like two pieces of boards. You can slide your wineglass on it to hang upside down. Oh, yeah, yeah, that made a makeshift bar basically. And so I have one less is hanging there. And twice I’ve been across the room and one has just fallen out. But I have rationalized both of them in that one time. The music which the Alexa sits right on top of the bar. was playing really loud. So like maybe the vibrations like vibrated out. And one time I was, I’ve been walking around I was like cleaning or something. So I was walking past it like a bunch of times. So again, I was like, hey, probably just the floor is probably like off and so maybe it slowly slid. But I did have an experience once where I was asleep in my bed. And I woke up at about I think it was like three in the morning, which is creepy because that’s supposedly the witching hour the devil. Yes. And I woke up and I rolled over and looked at my phone and I could feel Cali my cat laying next me my feet at the end of the bed and I looked at my phone I saw it’s like three or whatever. And then I felt Cali jumped down and leave the bed. As if the weight that was there went away. But it was weird because Kelly has a bell on her collar and she’s 16 pounds. So usually you hear a full like when she lands here anything and so I sat up. But I distinctly felt something like it felt like someone sitting on the end of your bed and then standing up. You know that feeling Rachel God, and I round and Kelly wasn’t anywhere to be seen. And I kind of was like what the hell word Kelly. And I have a video camera in my downstairs that looks at like my whole downstairs area. And I am a lazy piece of shit. So I often will open the app and look at it. If I hear a noise downstairs to see I’ll check if there’s a burglar before I get out of bed. And am I going to die? Let’s look at the phone. And so I looked at it and Kelly was asleep on top of my chair, which is what she likes asleep. Just like dead asleep there. So she definitely had like she had not been on your bed. No way she would have gotten down and gotten onto the chair and curl up and gotten to sleep but in five seconds. So I don’t know. I’m hoping it was just a dream. Oh, and one time in my bedroom, same house. I woke up with a star and sat straight up in bed because I swore I had I heard a woman’s voice say Oh, hello. And I lived alone. And I sat up straight and was like, ah, and there was nothing there. Hello. I’m like that. But both times I’m like yeah, probably a dream.

Rachel 1:27:25
I’m picturing one of two things. Either your house was built during Prohibition, and your ghost is no fun. And a super stickler. Or this woman who has a complete alcoholic and she thinks all of her wine. All of your wine is for her. And so she’s like holding a glass of wine going Oh, hello. Just drinking it in front of you.

Emily 1:27:53
Well, I will say I used to have a roommate but lived in my guest bedroom and her father died while she lived with me and she brought his ashes back with her to our house and so, okay, he was always like, I don’t think my dad want and I was like, go Okay, sure. Like, I don’t really believe in that. But it didn’t feel like a pipe. It doesn’t feel like anything. I don’t really believe in ghosts, but if it was, if I had to assign a gender to it, it feels like a lady.

Rachel 1:28:22
I’m picturing Jenna. From 30 rock.

Emily 1:28:29
Working on my night cheese.

Rachel 1:28:33
That’s Liz. Who’s the other one the blonde been Jenna. Yeah, her name is Jenna. Okay. Yeah, no, the night cheese. That’s definitely cheese in my Snuggie Yeah, I’m picturing her with your wine going. Oh, hello.

Emily 1:28:51
Just sitting on my bed like I’m You’re so pretty. You’re drooling more likely.

Rachel 1:28:57
I had to. I didn’t have to I volunteered to drive my friend to get a colonoscopy recently. And on the way home, she was a little bit trippy. And she leans over to me, and we’re talking about something and out of nowhere, she just stroked my face and goes You’re so pretty. I know she was just real drug that but I still am like holding that forever.

Emily 1:29:21
Yeah, that’s it’s like drunk thoughts or so or drunk words or sober thoughts? You’re like she really does think that she was Hi.

Rachel 1:29:31
Seamus meant it Shane meant it Oh my God forever and I’m gonna hold on to that validation like a true type three, take it to the fucking grave. And then I won’t need to haunt anyone

Emily 1:29:41
good. I love that and I love the validation which honestly, you know, girl that we need and so I think that is why it’s been so nice to see a few people popping up on our Instagram and stuff you know, saying that They like the podcast. And I hope that everyone who’s listening, enjoyed today and you know, had a good time even though it was horrible. It really well. Yes. Yeah. Anything else? I didn’t mean to like step on the end of your story, Justin. No.

Rachel 1:30:17
Get to. And now that was the whole thing. I just wanted to tell all of our listeners that apparently my friend on drugs thinks that I’m pretty. So that was my big announcement. So let’s hear the other one for now.

Emily 1:30:29
Yeah, yes, we have less important announcements to share before we sign off. First, I wanted to share that we’re going to be launching some exciting new content for those of you who probably definitely want more of us.

Rachel 1:30:45
Oh, yeah. So very exciting. First, we are launching tiny episodes, which we are calling terrible today. Let me explain. So obviously, there are a ton of horrible historic stories. But when we’re doing our research, we also stumble across a lot of other stories about more current events and crimes that are horrible, or ridiculous or hilarious, but they aren’t historic. We’re talking 1987 and beyond during our lifetimes, because remember, from the first episode, pre 1987, history post 1987. We were alive, kept. So we are going to be starting our little mini episodes posting terrible today on Tuesdays. We love alliteration. If you can think of eventually we’re gonna have a Patreon. If anybody can think of a good Patreon alliteration name, please tell us we are into that. And the episodes will feature stories from the States or cities that we talked about in the main episode. So today, you will be hearing about obviously the Grand Canyon and San Diego and then Tuesday, you will hear terrible today based on Arizona and San Diego I was gonna say, or Canyon or Canyon or national park?

Emily 1:32:07
Yeah, we’re very excited about our tiny, terrible Tuesday’s Nope, terrible today on Tuesdays to say it a million times. We also want to encourage you guys to please subscribe on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts. And if we could ask a favor, which I think that we know each other well enough now that I can be asking favors of you. Please leave us a review. Give us five stars, download the episodes, that makes a huge difference. We just are starting out and brand new. And so the more we can hear from you guys and get, you know, positive likes and subscriptions and things, the better for us. And if you leave a review, and in that review, tell us why we should visit your town. We just might read it on the podcast. So please show us the

Rachel 1:33:02
love or if you have any connection to one of our stories, a personal connection, drop in in our reviews and then move for sure we’ll read them on the podcast because we love that. You can also email us something horrible that happened in your hometown at horrible history. podcasts@gmail.com or obviously you can slide it right into our DMS on Instagram at horrible history pop. Follow us there to get to know us and until next time, thanks for listening.

Emily 1:33:31
Hopefully you’re horrified.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Content/Trigger Warnings: plane crashes, suicide, infant death    

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Twitter: @thehorriblepod
Email: horriblehistorypodcast@gmail.com

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Intro Music: “Creeper” – Oliver Lyu

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